Electric water heater HELP!

[BigPapa]

I know someone here has my answer.



My electric water heater is running out of hot water too quickly. Came home tonight and my son had just taken a shower and my daughter was just getting out of the bath and I had to shave with luke-warm water.



Here's my question, what is the proper sequence for the elements to come on? Should they ever be on at the same time?



I replaced the upper thermostat a few weeks ago and I'm thinking it's coming on first. I can hear it. I think I'll get my multi-meter out tomorrow night and check them after bath-time.



Thanks,



Scott

 

[JNailor]

The cold water enters through a tube to the bottom of the tank, thus the lower element comes on first. If you use all the hot water the top element comes on to heat the top so you get back to hot water sooner. I'm not sure if they can both be on together. If you run out too soon, I would suspect the lower element is not working.



Dana

 

[Little Bill]

Check to see if there is power to the lower thermostat when it runs out of hot water. If no power, then probably due to a peak-load leveling device controlled by your power company. My power company installed these devices on both heat pumps and the water heater when the house was built.

During winter months, on-peak hours are typically defined as those hours between 6:00 a. m. and 1:00 p. m. , plus 4:00 p. m. through 9:00 p. m. , Monday through Friday.

I had the same problem in the mornings a few years back, luke warm water when it was my turn. Changed elements and no improvement. Checked power when there was no hot water available and found only the upper thermostat and element was getting power. Checked the breaker and found power on both poles. There was a load leveling device installed in one of the legs (lower element) and no power getting past it. Checked it later in the day and power was going through it. Ended up leaving the device installed but installed a jumper around it. Now I have hot water all the time and the power company still sees the device as operational.

 

[Hoefler]

Check the lower element. Most likely it is bad. If the heater is very old, it may have the bottom full of sediment or lime. If it gets high enough to cover the element, it will cause it to fail. The lower element heats the water 90% of the time. Like said above, the upper only comes on when the temp in the top of the heater drops significantly.

 

[BigPapa]

That's what I'm looking for. I checked both units when I replaced the upper thermostat. They still have continuity and I can hear the upper one when it's on so I don't think they're bad. No load leveling devices on my stuff, the house is over 100 years old. I got a lot of sediment out of it last spring, took the lower unit out and used a 3/4" hose taped to a wet/dry vac and got all of it out I could see.



So, in review, the lower unit should come on first, then if it can't keep up the upper unit should kick on? Will they ever be on at the same time?



Thanks,



Scott

 

[GHarman]

Big Papa, Are you serviced by the TVA? Ask if they have incentives for a newer water heater. I have United Power Coop. Between them and Tri-State Electrical supplier I got a NEW WATER HEATER FREE! I just had to plumb it in. The water heater is a Rheem Marathon! You pay out of pocket up front but get a refund check from the service provider and the generating organization. Worth a check. These new units are plastic tanks, highly insulated and very efficient. They are guarenteed for the life of the original installation. GregH

 

[Little Bill]

So, in review, the lower unit should come on first, then if it can't keep up the upper unit should kick on? Will they ever be on at the same time?

Yea, the lower will always come on first. Simultaneous operation of both elements depends on how it's wired. This link shows schematics of both ways.



Did you lift the leads off the elements when you tested continuity ?

 

[Dieselnut59]

I am under the assumption that all but the commercial electric water heaters have an "alternating" device to allow either, but not both elements to run, according to demand. 4500 watts is the biggest element I have ever seen for a residential electric heater. A plumbing friend of mine showed me an interesting thing when I replaced the water heater at the house I grew up in. Instead of the one 40 gallon water heater or instead of "upgrading" to a 80 gallon unit (which still only has 4500 watt elements), he suggested putting two 40 gallon units in series, where one feeds into the other one. Of course, this requires another circuit and 30 amp 240 volt breaker. We NEVER ran out of hot water after that, even after all four of us took showers (with full flow showerheads) and did laundry. If I were "stuck" with electric water heating, I would do the series thing... . If not, I would highly recommend gas for water heating. You won't run out then!

 

[BigPapa]

Nut, I'd have thought you would have come up with a diesel powered water heater!



Thanks for the advice.



Scott

 

[Dieselnut59]

Nut, I'd have thought you would have come up with a diesel powered water heater!



Thanks for the advice.



Scott

I guess I will have to convert it!

Well... ... . There is something similar... Remember the old home heating oil boiler furnaces... Dammit, stop giving me ideas!

 

[BigPapa]

I do remember the old kerosene powered refrigerators... ... .....



Scott

 

[Dieselnut59]

Another thought on something I learned from tinkering with water heater settings. . turn up the heat on it... the higher the heat, the less hot water you must use out of the tank.

 

[BigPapa]

This is true, but I have a 6 and an 8 year old and I'd hate for one of them to turn on the hot by mistake and scald themselves.



Scott

 

[Dieselnut59]

That can be an issue but... . I grew up with a "cranked up" water heater and learned that too much hot water will burn you. . just like getting too close to a fireplace, stove or heater will burn you. I have my gas water heater on 190F now. It is a 40 gallon unit. I use about 1/3 hot water and 2/3 cold in the shower. If it were on the "kid safe" setting (marked "normal" on the valve), it would have to be 50/50 and would run out much quicker. Another advantage: when using an automatic dishwasher, the auxiliary heating element never comes on (to get water up to 180F). I can understand one's judgment with their children, but thankfully, I have none and "learned to take a fall" when a child, before the government made decisions for us and can enjoy UNdoing things that are now government mandated... low flow toilets, showerheads, faucets, "energy efficient" fluorescent lighting (I prefer the old full wattage preheat type), catalytic converters, key in ignition chimes, seat belt warnings, automatic transmission/brake interlocks, clutch/starter interlocks and a plastic tab that prevents a gas water heater from being set above 170F. LOL

 

[GHarman]

Nut, I'd have thought you would have come up with a diesel powered water heater!



Thanks for the advice.



Scott

Actually, Uncle Sam beat him to it. We used them in a field mess application to heat water to clean mess kits and when available, to heat water for showers in Viet Nam, back in 1967-1969. Course, they could stand to be updatedOo. . They would hang in a 55 gallon drum full of water(hand filled:-laf) and operated on the "drip" principle. GregH