Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) Electronics on 12V?

[Mike Ellis]

OK gurus, I need some info on the 12V engines. Specifically, what electronic controls are on the 2nd gens (96/97 with 215 pump) with manual transmissions?



I was watching a special not long back on the new electromagnetic pulse (EMP) generators that the police and military can use to knock out a car's engine during chases etc. Got to wondering how that would work against a 12V with mechanical pump. I could see a really hefty dose blasting the fuel shutoff solenoid, but there are mechanical countermeasures to stop that (shoelace?)



Is there anything else electronic on our engines that could be shut down in case of an EMP frying?



Don't have any plans for blockade running, but it's always good to know the capabilities of your rig...

 

[illflem]

An EMP generator would shut down your tach, grid heaters & cruise control, that's it on a manual 12 valve. It would keep on running.

 

[PHaller]

Umm, wouldn't the fuel shut off solonoid drop, thus cutting fuel during the pulse?

-Paul R. Haller-

 

[illflem]

The shut down solenoid doesn't involve electronics unless you want to count a relay. My understanding is that an EMP only effects computerized systems.

 

[TxDieselKid]

Just another reason to P-pump it.



That's actually kinda intresting info.



Andrew

__________________

2001 Dodge Cummins

 

[C. Harlan]

Anyone up for organizing a Cannonball Run????



-Chris-

 

[JohnE]

Originally posted by illflem

An EMP generator would shut down your tach, grid heaters & cruise control, that's it on a manual 12 valve. It would keep on running.

And your charging system, most of the dash idiot lights, and us auto boys would loose overdrive and TCC lockup.



As Bill stated it would knock out any electronics meaning the <b>P</b>owertrain <b>C</b>ontrol <b>M</b>odule or <b>PCM</b>. Anti-lock brakes would fail, too. ABS is an independant <b>E</b>lectronic <b>C</b>ontrol <b>M</b>odule or <b>ECM</b>.

(see Bill, I knew there was an ECM in there. )

 

[Mike Ellis]

If EMP shut down the Always-Lock Braking System on the 2W ABS, I don't think it would affect ability to use the truck all that much. I don't have 4W ABS so don't know whether it would be a big loss or not.



Is there a description of what the Powertrain Control Module does on the 12V trucks? Just wondering what it really does, and how much we would miss it if it were gone due to "unscheduled electromagnetic diagnostics"



Ya know, the 12V gives the owner a lot of return on investment. Not only does it seem to offer protection against EMP weapons and nuclear war effects, the same features make it unlikely that your engine would sputter and die when a UFO comes in to abduct you. With engine still running and appropriate fueling, ET would have no hope of finding your rapidly departing truck in the clouds of smoke.



Gotta love it, paranormal justification to spend $$$ BOMBing our trucks. If the wife complains, pop in the old "Close Encounters of the 3rd Kind" tape and tell her, "Look, if you are ever sitting at a railroad crossing on a lonely night and a saucer comes buzzing in, you'd be THANKFUL for that extra fueling... . " Oo.

 

[RHebert]

If we're talking about the same news article, you've got to have a certain device installed on your vehicle for the police to be able to disable your engine. If not, they would disable every vehicle, computer, TV, etc. in the area and that would be a problem. The relay would have to be installed in all vehicles (approx. $20. 00) and then whenever someone tries to outrun the police, they could aim their transmitter and selectively disable a particular vehicle. It wouldn't completely kill the engine for safety reasons, but slow it to a crawl. I wouldn't hold my breath for this to become law... ... ... ... .

 

[Andy Redmond]

Ok Mike, will you become my marketing manager!

 

[Deezul1]

ABS doesnt effect anything when it doesnt work. I unplugged mine for a while till found out why the light was on and couldnt tell the cifference except it stopped better on a hard stop. In snow and rain its prolly pretty ok otherwise it sucks on 2wd

 

[JohnE]

ABS failure

You guys jumped on that <em>like flies on a fresh ... one</em>.

It was meant as a poke to illflem as he jabs me about calling the PCM an ECM, <font size=1>even though it is</font>.

If the ABS systems fails it is a fail safe. The anti-lock portion fails, but the service brakes will still function.



You missed the worst thing that would shut down, the charging system.



Mike;

Can you read electrical schematics? That's how I figured out what signals go through the PCM.

 

[Mike Ellis]

JohnE,

Yes indeedee I can read schematics, but in this case don't actually HAVE any schematics. Thought the gurus on the TDR would know off the top of their heads.

I figured sufficiently strong EMP will wipe out the electrical system, but from my limited knowledge if the fuel shut-off solenoid were held open mechanically, like the famous shoe-string activator, the engine would keep going as long as you had fuel since the 12V trucks have mechanical lift pump and injection pump.

It could get ugly if they hit you at night (no lights) but an enterprising fellow can always find a way to deal with events like that, even in the event of EMP. For example, you could carry around a pair of Night Vision Goggles sealed in one of those old-fashioned metal lunch boxes - just need to be sure the mating surfaces provide metal-to-metal contact and whatever electronic goodies are inside will make it through EMP just fine.

 

[JohnE]

R12

All external lighting does not go through the electronic thingee.

 

[C. Harlan]

So... Now that we know we cannot be stopped... Anyone up for a Cannonball Run Race across the country?? :-laf Oo. :-laf



-Chris-

 

[Mike Ellis]

Absolutely, but we will need to bring along some flatbeds or tow straps for any 24V brethren that might be zapped along the way.



Wonder how our fellow diesel heads in the Ford and Chevy camps would make out in the same circumstances... . Oo.

 

[C. Harlan]

Well, I know that the old 7. 3 Natural Aspirated motors with the DB2831 (right #?) pumps would be able to hang, and the old Chevies would be able to as well. . we would have the newest trucks, with the most power, but can you just imagine if we actually did? I remember 2 years ago, there was a Chicken Hauler's Cannonball run from LA to Miami, anything goes. whoever made it there first got $20k cash, as well as other gifts. That's when you want a 360" Wheelbase pete 379 with 4 tanks, and about 3 guys, either a large car or a porta potty, with a super 13 double over! I thought it was a joke at first, then it was all over the CB, which made me feel like I was living back in the 70's, hearing it all over, like Smokey and the Bandit! It would be fun, but we would need a huge fuel tank to accomodate that left lane habit!



-Chris-

 

[rodneync]

Anyone care to follow-up on what it would take (with minimal cost and maximum reliability and repairabilitly) to EMP-proof a vehicle?

 

[ejmesser]

Anyone care to follow-up on what it would take (with minimal cost and maximum reliability and repairabilitly) to EMP-proof a vehicle?

rodneync,

I wonder how many government alphabet soup agency servers were just activated by your post. :-laf:-laf

 

[Nyoest]

Anyone care to follow-up on what it would take (with minimal cost and maximum reliability and repairabilitly) to EMP-proof a vehicle?

It's been eight years since this started but this is the first I've heard of it. It would be easier to get the EMP gun and shoot the cop car. No call on a phone, no cb no communication or persuit period. Would prolly scramble the radar gun at the very least.



Hmmm very appealing... ...