Eliminate Muffler

[jkoopmann]

Thanks for the info. and site. I will follow up.

 

[RDeFayette]

I did the ME from Genos on my '03 and the drone was deadly. Especially if I was towing or hauling at highway speeds.

Straight through muffler was/is much better.

 

[AH64ID]

As others have said fuel makes power, not air. Air just allows you to run more fuel.

If you have a full set of gauges try a Smarty Jr and see what it does for you.

I upgraded to a Garrett Powermax Stage 2 and it's a much better setup than stock, in every power level I have tried from stock to +100 hp.

 

[RDeFayette]

As others have said fuel makes power, not air. Air just allows you to run more fuel.



If you have a full set of gauges try a Smarty Jr and see what it does for you.



I upgraded to a Garrett Powermax Stage 2 and it's a much better setup than stock, in every power level I have tried from stock to +100 hp.

Fuel makes power, air doesn't?

The FULL combustion/burning of the fuel makes power SO if you don't have air where are you?

Need both to make power, if not all you make is black smoke.

That's the biggest give away of not enough air.

 

[AH64ID]

If you add fuel you get power, if you add air you don't get any more power (unless previously over fueled). Just adding a turbo to a stock truck will generally not add any power. It will make the motor respond differently, but you wont see a power gain.

That's the general rule applied to an efficient setup. The stock 04. 5-07 truck is not efficient with the HE351 and rwhp gains have been reported on stock tuning from a lack of back pressure and more power making it to the wheels vs pushing the exhaust out on a high drive pressure to boost ratio.

 

[RDeFayette]

To do it right you need to add both in the correct ratio of air to fuel.

Adding fuel (some) with the stock turbo will get additional (some) power until the point of overfueling.

Stock the trucks are NOT overfueled and the stock turbo can make up the additional air required (to a point).

In a nut shell the point to be made is in order to get the max amount of energy from the fuel introduced into the combustion chamber the proper/correct amount of air is required.

If you want to turn it around a little bit it works like this, too much turbo, over aired (bet you never heard that before). Too much fuel, over fueled.

Remember what you were told growing up, too much of a good thing is bad for you.

Same here, be it air OR fuel.

Fuel is the source of the power, air is the oxidizer to burn the fuel.

Pretty simple

 

[MChrist]

My personal experience has shown that my stock truck, with Smarty Jr on perf setting (100 hp) actually does make a shipload of extra power. More fuel in this case cranks up the turbo to pump more air and the combination probably does make 100 hp.

When I added my compound turbo system, I went for a drive and it made zero difference. Before and after runs were made with my Edge Insight Monitor, which reads mph and time. Before and after runs 0-60 were right around 5. 7 seconds if I remember correctly. A call to ATS pointed me to needing more fuel. A call to Bob at Smarty verified I probably needed more fuel. Smarty Sr (s-06) got installed and my 0-60 times dropped to 4. 5 seconds. The extra fuel lit the second turbo and all the difference in the world was made that night.

So yes, I agree with most of what's been said, but it's more complex than "one is better than the other". Although fuel and air work in unison, fuel is more important in making power.

 

[rscurtis]

That 0-60 is very impressive for a 7000#+ truck. Can you imagine one of these engines is a street rod?

 

[MChrist]

Yep, it's all in the launch. 4wd, boost against the brakes, and let 'er rip. I've tried to beat it, but I am consistently 4. 5-4. 6 seconds, so I stopped trying to beat it. Something is bound to break, and when it does, it won't be pretty... or cheap!

 

[Jim Ross]

Got to jump into this.

I took off the muffler when I put on the flatbed due to space conflicts with the mud flaps. Exhaust is turned out in front of the passenger side mud flap. Cat is in place, untouched. The truck is more throaty at idle, but I don't hear any difference going down the road or when pulling our 27. 5 ft 5th wheel.

I bought a Smarty Jr. and over the last 18 months or so have tried all sorts of different settings. It did nothing for me. On some settings it caused a lot of smoke, on other settings very little smoke, but no appreciable gain in seat of the pants feel and nothing for economy. My truck is back on the stock settings and the Smarty Jr. is in its box in the closet.

That's my experience, yours may differ.

 

[MChrist]

Wow! Did you ever contact Smarty? It is impossible to NOT notice a difference with Smarty Jr or Sr. I backed off mine from SW7 to SW 1 and it's so slow now, that I can hardly believe it!!
When my truck was 100% stock, and I put Smarty Jr on level 1, the truck was so different, I was afraid I was going to tear something up. You had yours for 18 months and even tried Sw3 (100 hp) and didn't notice anything? Are you one of those Zombies from the movies? (I'm half kidding).
Something is wrong. Plain and simple. Maybe your OBD connection is goofy. Something.

 

[AH64ID]

Based on some of the posts Jim Ross makes about economy and power there is something not quite right with his truck. It hasn't been pinpointed yet, but something is off... Or maybe he has a numb seat of the pants and a bad calculator

 

[Jim Ross]

Yeah, I dunno guys... . something does sound "off", but so far I haven't figured it out.
My Smarty was updated for free by the factory rep... . service was great, but I really cannot tell any difference in it.
I'm real picky with my calculator, so I don't think the problem is with my numbers. And I am an old school car/motorcycle guy, so my seat of the pants is usually not too far off, either.
I have my truck set on stock settings now and am running some injector cleaner thru it, at about double the normal rate, to see if anything changes. Maybe I have a couple of injectors that are not working properly?
I have to pull a heavy cargo trailer to Las Vegas from Reno and return at the end of January, hopefully that trip will provide more info for me.
But, back to the Smarty; on my '01 I had an Edge EZ set on the middle setting and it was night and day difference from stock, but my Smarty just doesn't seem to do anything.

 

[cerberusiam]

If you cannot feel the difference on the middle setting with Smarty it is either just not programming the truck right or something else is the problem.



Towing especially, you should findit easier to hold speed on grades and the downshifting will be reduced.



Don't forget to add a boost fooler or you may not see the increases where you can feel them easily, in the mid and upper ranges. The sloppy stock TC will minimize the gains when ulocked and in the lower rpm's so SOP is not as accurate. If you don't boost fool you won't see the benfit when the boost goes over 30 psi which on a hard pull it needs to or it is just flat and smoky.



Another trick to help things is a lockup switch. With OD locked out and the TC locked you should have no issues feeling the difference, same in OD. If the power is there it will roll all but the steepest grades with little issue.

 

[Jim Ross]

Help me out here..... does the Smarty not have a boost fooler built in, like the Edge EZ in my old '01? Do I really need it if my boost does not exceed 30-32 psi?
My boost seems to run pretty high, at least higher than in the '01, but I don't think it goes much past 30... and when I am pulling, the EGT's limit how much I can "put my foot in it"; in other words, when I am pulling and the boost gets up to the 30 range my EGT's will be around 1200-1250 and I have to back off to keep the EGT's from going above 1250. I have hit 1300 briefly on rare occasions, but I don't like going over 1250.
Let me ask this about the Smarty: is it normal for the fuel pump to run for several minutes when I am changing settings on the Smarty?

 

[cerberusiam]

Help me out here..... does the Smarty not have a boost fooler built in, like the Edge EZ in my old '01?

Smarty does not boost fool, it remaps the boost tables to read to the limit of the MAP or about 45 psi. What it does is stop over boost codes and defuel over 30 psi. However, your boost is controlled by the WG solenoid and Smarty does not rest its limit of 30 psi. It will still limit boost to 30 psi and defuel the motor unless it is disabled. Your Smarty should have a WG off in the options menu that will just stop the WG from opening, if it works. Try it first to see if that will allow boost to go well into the 30's, if it doesn't you will need a boost fooler. The boost fooler will clamp the voltage the ECU sees to around 28 psi. The WG stays closed and the engine fuels till it runs out of flow to the CP-3.



Under a hard pull the boost should spike to around 35-38 psi and that will make 200 degrees difference in the EGT's. More air less heat.



Without addressing the WG controller the engine is just defueling or loosing power in the mid and upper ranges where the HP willbe noticeable. If you don't have a tighter TC or run a lockup switch the extra TQ is just blowing thru the fluid coupling and you will find it hard to feel.

Let me ask this about the Smarty: is it normal for the fuel pump to run for several minutes when I am changing settings on the Smarty?

Yep, perfectly mormal. It plays a symphony with the LP.

My boost seems to run pretty high, at least higher than in the '01, but I don't think it goes much past 30... and when I am pulling, the EGT's limit how much I can "put my foot in it"; in other words, when I am pulling and the boost gets up to the 30 range my EGT's will be around 1200-1250 and I have to back off to keep the EGT's from going above 1250. I have hit 1300 briefly on rare occasions, but I don't like going over 1250.

You will find that the EGT's will not climb as fast or as high once the WG is taken care of. Also, go back to the old range with EGT's when advancing the timing:



up to 1250 - all day long

1300-1500 - 3 minute out of 5

1500-1800 - 1 minute out of 5

1800 plus - 30 seconds to Chernobyl



The 600 series engine has better valves, better piston cooling, and better engine cooling than the 12V's. I have run the crap out my 12V's following that and drive my 05 the same way with no engine issues.

 

[AH64ID]

It's a boost fooler as much as disables the WG on 04. 5-07 and the resets the ECM to allow more boost than stock. Stock boost is 30-32 with a load and 28-32 without a load. The Smarty Jr should allow for about 33-37 depending on load/SW/etc.

It works on nearly every truck, but not all (as I am sure Cerberusiam will point out). (see what happens when I start to reply and get side-tracked).

Here is what I use for my EGT's based on SJR timing. TM1 is stock timing. Stock will run 1450° all day and not hurt anything.

TM1: 1400° max cont, 1450° momentary
TM2: 1300° max cont, 1350° momentary
TM3: 1350° max cont, 1400° momentary
TM4: 1250° max cont, 1300° momentary

 

[cerberusiam]

It works on nearly every truck, but not all (as I am sure Cerberusiam will point out). (see what happens when I start to reply and get side-tracked).

Yes I did and advised him to try it first.



I could have gone into what constitutes an over boost code and how the WG limits are handled but I figure to save that for later. :-laf



At least we can agree on fuel pressure and vaccuum. .

 

[AH64ID]

It does happen, just not very common. And at least it's easy to check.

 

[Jim Ross]

Thanks to you both. I keep learning.
I do not recall seeing anything in my Smarty Jr that offered a "WG off" option in the menu. Assuming my Smarty Jr does not have this option, what should I do next to get around the WG solenoid? According to my boost gage, my pressure never reaches the mid-30's, maybe it will hit 32, but that would only be a short-lived spike. Perhaps the lack of boost is what is driving my EGT's higher than I like?