Emissions/EPA - What's going on?

[Wayne M.]

If Todd sees this hopefully he chines in. All I can tell you is my experience with the 150 mile countdown, and I could not get the code to reset after def injector replacement. First tried my Scan Gauge, no dice, then my buddies snap on. A high dollar unit wouldn't clear the countdown, which continued over several restarts and 80-100 miles by the time I got it to the dealership. If there is a way to clear the hard codes I'd be all for knowing what it is.

Of course I’m only fluent in Ford, but just like gas engine OBDII rules all the rules should be the same.
Let’s say you change a bad O2 sensor in your Merc. You can’t just plug into a inspection machine and get a sticker- you must run monitors.
We don’t just run monitors to make the state happy, completing your monitors proves the system and repair.
Back to the O2 repair, if your monitor won’t run, it may be due to another underlying issue- like a bad O2 heater for example, OR you’re not hitting the targets in that drive cycle. This is why it’s so hard to get that dang EVAP monitor to run. That drive cycle is complex in any vehicle.
In order to get rid of your countdown message, you must run that monitor- I’ve done it. The key is knowing the drive cycle to make that happen. With OBDII gas engines, the code is erased, but the code P1000 is set. Once all the monitors are set, P1000 is gone. The rules are different for OBDII diesel.
We’re looking at a similar situation here. My bet is that the code is held until the monitor runs.

 

[EricViviano]

That's exactly what I'm looking at. Had to sign up for the membership at igotacummins and am 95% sure I'm going to pull the trigger. Did you buy the exhaust through him? Shibby plug kit? I've been price shopping some of these things.

Ray at Double R is widely considered the best tuner for 4th gen trucks. Yes I got my exhaust from him as well, he is about the only one with Flo-pro in stock. Everyone else is out of stock or stopped selling the deleted exhaust kits from fear from the EPA. Yes I got the shibby plug kit as well, and the EGT sensor with the MM3.

 

[EricViviano]

Eric, if you have an ‘18 pulling down 15 mpg running light as an average there’s surely something else going on. The SCR trucks should get great numbers! I know my work buddy with his ‘18 tradesman is quite happy with his.

I will do a hand calculation to confirm, but you absolutely could be right. After a clutch failure at 5000 miles anything is possible. I love the truck, don't get me wrong, but like everything else it's not perfect. The touchy throttle on two track mountain roads sucks, fuel economy sucks, and it rides rough as hell. All fixable issues, which I am beginning to chip away at. Going to keep the truck until it falls apart.

 

[JohnM45]

I will do a hand calculation to confirm, but you absolutely could be right. After a clutch failure at 5000 miles anything is possible. I love the truck, don't get me wrong, but like everything else it's not perfect. The touchy throttle on two track mountain roads sucks, fuel economy sucks, and it rides rough as hell. All fixable issues, which I am beginning to chip away at. Going to keep the truck until it falls apart.

Not to thread-jack, but for some reference, I'm fairly light-footed with my 2500 RCLB G56 and get a hand-calculated 17.6 on a tank of fuel, for the most part. That's running side roads with limited red lights and stops...doing around 45-50mph. A 200 mile trip this past Sunday had me yield 20 mpg on cruise control 65-70mph on the highway.

Back to the EPA stuff....just looking for some clarification. Are the two primary things in the "Delete" kit 1) removing EGR and 2) removing all exhaust pipes with catalytic converter and DPF injection? I'm sure there are finer details, but painting with broad strokes, are they the primary systems?

I'm hoping to just embrace the tech and hope I can run this truck for 20 years.

 

[EricViviano]

I will hand calc mine but it seems low to me. Guess I shouldn't complain unless I have real numbers.

When you "delete" a 4th gen you need to remove the DPF/SCR with a "race pipe" or full exhaust. Otherwise it will clog up quickly with deleted tuning.

You can leave the EGR system is place, it can be turned off to not function, with tuning. Or you can remove it completely from under the hood.

You also need to remove or disable the throttle valve, you can unplug it, or remove it with an intake horn or delete block.

I agree with you on embracing the truck, since my truck was one of the last standards, I will never buy another new truck again.

 

[JR]

John, I would expect your mileage to improve as your engine wears in. I don't do enough solo runs over the course of a tank of fuel to have a solid "empty" baseline but by all accounts it's been pretty good.

Heres a trip I did last fall, filled up at home before I left and as I was about to turn onto my road on the return leg my low fuel light dinged on. The down side to fueling at home is my pump doesnt have a counter on it, but for all intensive purposes I think we can agree it was pretty good mileage. Of course being all highway/freeway helps.

Average speed of 61.4mph.

With a 32 gallon tank if there was 5 gallons remaining once the low fuel light activated that would put me at 21.6mpg.

I'll take it any day of the week and would be completely happy leaving it the way it is if not for the exorbitant cost of replacement parts and being tied to a dealership infinitely. I know Wayne disagrees with me on this but my experience along with everyone else I know has proved his theory wrong at this point.
I would be more than happy to be proven wrong on this.

 

[JR]

Wayne, Google "right to repair" and look for things John Deere related. My cousin has been involved in this train wreck for some time now and without saying too much it has cost him some serious capital over the course of a couple of repairs.

 

[Wayne M.]

Wayne, Google "right to repair" and look for things John Deere related. My cousin has been involved in this train wreck for some time now and without saying too much it has cost him some serious capital over the course of a couple of repairs.

JR, this is not a valid comparison (off road/ non ODB vs. on road/ OBDII regulated motor vehicle).
Believe me, I know about the brands like JD, and Komatsu is brutally tight lipped on their diagnostics. You can’t get to first base with them. They’re not bound by the same RTR rules as passenger/LT vehicles.
OBDII diagnostics are grouped in generic and non generic for a reason, and while the laws might need fine tuning, they’re supposed to enable the shadetree guy to get out of the woods.
Just today, I fielded a call from a satellite shop this afternoon. He’s a pretty competent mechanic who knows nothing about getting rid of a SCR full shutdown to idle (empty tank) on a ‘15 F550. All he has is a generic scan tool and you tube. He offered to try it on his own, and he already read back a drive cycle he found on you tube that sounds right. If I have to, I’ll make the road call with the IDS, but I’ll report back weather or not he can bail himself out of this, like any backyard guy might.

 

[Wayne M.]

.
I'll take it any day of the week and would be completely happy leaving it the way it is if not for the exorbitant cost of replacement parts and being tied to a dealership infinitely. I know Wayne disagrees with me on this but my experience along with everyone else I know has proved his theory wrong at this point.
I would be more than happy to be proven wrong on this.


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OK OK, Ram parts (all FCA) parts are out of control on cost and availability, and they MUST rectify this.
!!!ARE YOU LISTENING, FCA!!!
But I know one guy who’s had excellent luck with his system.
Where’s Brockman?
Personally, I’ve never come across a bad DEF injector in either Ford or Mack. Bad heaters and pumps? Yea. I think the Ram’s toned down EGR is better.
Food for thought- in our fleet, we have many flavors of Cummins 6.7’s in all sorts of applications- SCR and 2007 trim. In a few brand medium trucks, and every single DSNY street sweeper. The reliability in these trims are fantastic. Regenerations are seamless.

 

[brucejohnson]

EPA actions for Northwest companies manufacturing/selling emissions bypass products.

Three Inland Northwest diesel truck companies agree to pay EPA penalties for selling prohibited emission products

https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2020/mar/05/three-inland-northwest-diesel-truck-companies-agre/

 

[JR]

I can't help but wonder how long before the likes of Summit and JEGS are singled out as well. They'll probably be next on the radar once the coal rollers are squashed.

 

[Bob Wagner]

https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/jegs-automotive-inc-case-settlement

 

[Bob Wagner]

over 7 millón here

https://www.epa.gov/sites/productio...erformance-initialdecisionandpenaltyorder.pdf

 

[JohnM45]

I was never really a fan of the show, but had watched a few episodes....Diesel Brothers were fined like $800K+ to the Federal gubment and their local county they work out of...

I'm not against performance tuning and whatnot, but I have always hated coal-rolling...never made sense to me. Living in a rural area, the local kids mostly have pickup-trucks and diesels...I don't see much coal-rolling anymore.

 

[HPSimpson]

When EPA is done with the larger Diesel Company's who broke the law, and since EPA now has the names of those that put modified non emissions products on there trucks you will be hearing from EPA! Or in some cases California EPA.

 

[brods]

When EPA is done with the larger Diesel Company's who broke the law, and since EPA now has the names of those that put modified non emissions products on there trucks you will be hearing from EPA! Or in some cases California EPA.

I sure wouldn't bet against it happening. A link from the article BruceJohnson posted: https://cleanairact.org/wp-content/...nd-Aftermarket-Defeat-Devices-Phil-Brooks.pdf

An interesting read for several reasons. Note the NOX emissions from gasoline engine starts in one of the pie charts. Makes one wonder if that stupid start stop on gasoline cars is counter productive. If nothing else, the PDF shows the EPA knows what is going on in the diesel world. Once the EPA is done with the supply side the next logical step for them is going after the end users.

 

[EDankievitch]

As I said earlier The Party Is Over.

 

[petersonj]

As I said earlier The Party Is Over.

Or, the Party is forming...

- John

 

[EDankievitch]

Not the party I want to get “Invited “ to.

 

[jhenderson]

How does the EPA obtain $7Million from a bankrupt company?