Energy crisis - what can/should we do?

[Gary - K7GLD]

"It's not callous or unfeeling to suggest that someone slow down or consolidate trips.



Income has nothing to do with it, so don't start playing the class-card. "



BS!



It's both callous, unfeeling, and long-term STUPIDITY to assume or suggest we continue our ongoing reliance and addiction to fossil fuels, whether they come from inside, or outside our country!



And individual income has EVERYTHING to do with it - if we were a nation of multi-millionaires, $5-$10 a gallon for fuel would be insignificant - just ask Barbra Streisand, Alec Baldwin, and some of their other wealthy celibrity friends who spout the "we really SHOULD be paying the same for fuel as they are in foreign countries... " line of crap.



But we all AREN'T all multi-millionaires - so for the wealthier few to simply suggest that since THEY aren't yet hurting, the lower income folks should "just eat cake", is both unfeeling and unrealistic!

 

[Hohn]

I agree that we should be exploiting solar, wind, hydroelectric, biofuel, and every other available source of energy in an effort to wean ourselves from oil.

But it won't happen until cost of oil> cost of alternative. It's basic economics.

I've posted before on the silver lining to the high-oil-price cloud. One benefit is that alternative energy becomes comparatively cheaper, and more economically feasible to bring to market.

I imagine the day where a farmer can go to the Co-op and buy Biodiesel made from the soybeans he dropped off there just a couple weeks prior. But it won't happen if bio is more expensive than petro.

 

[Hohn]

"It's not callous or unfeeling to suggest that someone slow down or consolidate trips.

Income has nothing to do with it, so don't start playing the class-card. "

BS!

It's both callous, unfeeling, and long-term STUPIDITY to assume or suggest we continue our ongoing reliance and addiction to fossil fuels, whether they come from inside, or outside our country!

And individual income has EVERYTHING to do with it - if we were a nation of multi-millionaires, $5-$10 a gallon for fuel would be insignificant - just ask Barbra Streisand, Alec Baldwin, and some of their other wealthy celibrity friends who spout the "we really SHOULD be paying the same for fuel as they are in foreign countries... " line of crap.

But we all AREN'T all multi-millionaires - so for the wealthier few to simply suggest that since THEY aren't yet hurting, the lower income folks should "just eat cake", is both unfeeling and unrealistic!

Unfeeling? Unrealistic? HA!!

I'll start to have some sympathy for that poor person when they are thin from going hungry, not morbidly obese from one fast food visit after another.

I'll be more sympathetic when they quit buying Lotto tickets and cigarettes while simultaneously complaining about the high price of gas.


Like I said-- the reality is that people have options. Some easy, some hard-- but ALWAYS options.

So, my advice? Slow down, give up smoking, shop at Aldi instead of McDonald's, lay off the lotto tickets, give up your cell phone, disconnect your cable, stop having 4 kids by 4 different men before you're 20, and try some EDUCATION to increase your marketable job skills.

The difference between me and someone who complains about fuel all the time is NOT that I am rich (yeah, everyone joins the AF to get rich )-- it's that I'm either going to do something about it or SHUT UP.

So, in my "unfeeling and unrealistic" opinion, people need to do what it takes to get by, or shut the heck up.

Don't complain about fuel prices when you're living a 35K lifestyle on a 25K income, or when you go to gas up the H2 you could "afford" because you financed it for 120 months.

Please. I'm quite confident that I can tell the difference between someone who is legitimately (and unfairly) in a tight spot and someone who's just lazy, ignorant, or both.

 

[Hohn]

Yeah, and because I'm not whining and complaining about fuel prices, I'm a mega-millionaire like the leftist snobs you named, right. #ad


Now what's BS?

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"The difference between me and someone who complains about fuel all the time is NOT that I am rich (yeah, everyone joins the AF to get rich )--





Justin, this isn't the first time you referred to your military service in a durogatory light - were you drafted, or are you there by choice? You DO remember "choice", right?



If you ARE in the military by choice, what features of the military keep you there instead of out in the "real world"?



Certainly, food, clothing and shelter aren't usually a big issue - not glamorous, fancy or gormet, but there IS a quality of stability in the military, and insulation from some of the factors of civilian life that ARE pretty attractive to some - maybe you?



OH, and don't bother with the "getting shot at" bit - that happens down in LA every night, and the ones shot at don't even get paid...

 

[FATCAT]

"... bags full of letters were written as "open letters to the current administration", and sent to NBC, CBS and all other major media headquarters - they are always looking for new ways to embarrass Bush, and would likely jump at the chance to place these letters prominently in their newscasts ... "



And what the F... do you think GW is gonna do? Pick up the phone and call the traders on the Merc. exchange and tell them to drop the price of oil on the futures market? Call the heads of the major oil companies and tell them to drop the price of their product at the pumps ... PRONTO OR ELSE!!



I though in the latest "Energy Bill" that GW and friends tried to make it easier for Refineries to expand with a roll back of some of the crazy red tape and hoops they have to jump through.



You think giving the Marxist-Media another topic to beat GW with is gonna get some action? Come-On, wake up ... stop whining and either drive less (not an option for lots of people), drive slower, or get a little car for your commute to work and leave the truck at home to be used for the weekends.



Yes, the price of gas has come down in the past few weeks ... market drop in demand.



Would you also recommend a letter writting campaign to the media about the fuel costs and rationing imposed by FDR (the bad Roosevelt) in '42. "... . this WWII is cramping my driving style waaaaa ... ". :{



Suck it up man and deal with it!!!

 

[Hohn]

"The difference between me and someone who complains about fuel all the time is NOT that I am rich (yeah, everyone joins the AF to get rich )--


Justin, this isn't the first time you referred to your military service in a durogatory light - were you drafted, or are you there by choice? You DO remember "choice", right?

If you ARE in the military by choice, what features of the military keep you there instead of out in the "real world"?

Certainly, food, clothing and shelter aren't usually a big issue - not glamorous, fancy or gormet, but there IS a quality of stability in the military, and insulation from some of the factors of civilian life that ARE pretty attractive to some - maybe you?

OH, and don't bother with the "getting shot at" bit - that happens down in LA every night, and the ones shot at don't even get paid...

Derogatory (that's the correct spelling) my @$$!!

Sheesh, Gary. Of course I CHOSE the military. You don't see me complaining about my income either!! But I'm not rich, plain and simple. YOU made it an issue, not me. YOU claim that I'm so wealthy that I'm untouched by high fuel prices.

It's my personal choice. In the cost/benefit analysis, I chose it.

I'd like to think that someone who's lived as long as you have would have a little more understanding and common sense.

Unless this was just a stick in my eye?


Regardless-- try sleeping with your head UNDER your pillow-- maybe the CLUE FAIRY will come by your house tonight and leave something for you.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Derogatory (that's the correct spelling) my @$$!!



Sheesh, Gary. Of course I CHOSE the military. You don't see me complaining about my income either!! But I'm not rich, plain and simple. YOU made it an issue, not me. YOU claim that I'm so wealthy that I'm untouched by high fuel prices.



It's my personal choice. In the cost/benefit analysis, I chose it.



I'd like to think that someone who's lived as long as you have would have a little more understanding and common sense.



Unless this was just a stick in my eye?





Regardless-- try sleeping with your head UNDER your pillow-- maybe the CLUE FAIRY will come by your house tonight and leave something for you.

NOPE Justin - just making a point...



I was in the Army myself - probably before you were born, in the mid-50's. Things have probably changed in the military, but job security and MANY things like medical care and such that form costly issues for civilians don't even factor into the military members problems.



It's just another example of choices and relative benefits - and what creates the ability to offer criticism or advice to how others should cope, in cases where the one making the suggestions doesn't face the same level of decisions...



You're AT your job, and many issues and decisions civilians must make, aren't even ON *your* radar screen...



Maybe your advice as to how others should deal with financial issues would change, if you lived in their civilian circumstances, where an entirely different pallette of problems and issues exist...



Cluelessness is a trait equally common to those in the military and similar isolated/insulated circumstances too...

 

[moparmarty]

Great exchange of ideas

Wow! What intelligent and insightful dialog, especially for such an emotionally charged issue. You guys have presented a lot of great ideas.



I agree with lowering my personal driving speed to get better mileage - but I'm a retired old fart with more time than money, and I have learned to enjoy the journey.



I agree we need to build more nuclear energy plants. 95% of France's electrical energy comes from nuclear energy and if the French can do it cleanly and safely, we sure should be able to.



I think we need to permit and build LNG (Liquid Natural Gas) off-loading facilities. It's clean and there is a lot of it all over the world that is just burned off or undeveloped because it cannot get to market.



I think we, as individuals, need to put pressure on our elected officials, at all levels of government, to develop alternative energy sources. I really think it can be done and eventually become cost effective.



Keep up the great exchange of ideas.

 

[JOdell]

You can call me sinister, callous and unfeeling if you like, I was just stating my opinion. Fuel has risen less than the price of the house that has to traveled back and forth from, less than the medical care, less than the food on the table etc. etc...

I don't know about all that. My fuel has went up close to 50% in a year. I can say my house sure hasn't went up in value that much.



Gary,

I do see your point about finding alternitive solutions to fossil fuel (non renuable).

I just don't see what we can do? I know that isn't what I should say. WE as a group are bigger then "THEY" are. But is seems that everyone feels like David taking on Goliath. I just heard this morning that the "oil companys" show a record 34% prifit so far this quarter. Is that sick? maybe. Who are we to tell a company they can't make that much money. And I know we all don't want the government to control the fuel. Remember the '70's? I don't I was a baby, but I have read history.

I don't know if this makes any sense, or if it is the ramblings of a man very tired from a 14 hour day.



On a side note. I don't like seeing us on this forum at each others throats. I like reading the stuff you guys put up here. Someday when I learn more about my truck I hope to contribute to this forum like the rest of you have.

-Jason

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"On a side note. I don't like seeing us on this forum at each others throats. I like reading the stuff you guys put up here. Someday when I learn more about my truck I hope to contribute to this forum like the rest of you have.

-Jason"



I primarily started this thread due to a challenge from another member here as to what *I* was doing in a constructive way to address runaway energy costs besides just whining about them.



We can't all do the same thing, and we all may have different ideas as to what will or won't work - but we all CAN do SOMETHING besides simply sit back and take it!



Sure, some get hot under the collar, and start with the abusive stuff - but so far, this thread has been relatively cool. I very much respect the opinions offered here, including the ones who disagree with me. I may seem to have picked on Hohn - but he's a good guy, and a relative oldtimer here - his opinion is every bit as valid as mine, whether I personally agree with it or not.



My main goal is just to keep discussion on the subject going - maybe something of benefit will come from it.

 

[GFritsch]

On a side note. I don't like seeing us on this forum at each others throats. I like reading the stuff you guys put up here. Someday when I learn more about my truck I hope to contribute to this forum like the rest of you have.

-Jason

Jason,



Don't go over to the political forum whatever you do. :-laf



Seriously, I agree. It's disappointing to see people reduce themselves to name calling and insults. (Not talking about this thread).



In regards to my quote you posted. There is no doubt that fuel has increased more in the last year then most other goods. (Although some construction materials are close). Fuel has not been increasing as fast as most other consumer items over the last 20+ years. In effect fuel has been too cheap when compared to other consumables.



As far as oil companies making too much profit, there are those who believe that private companies should be government regulated to their profit. Seems to run against the basic principals of a free enterprise to me. Using the example of your home, lets say you bought your home a year ago in a fast growing area. The house doubled in value and you decided to sell it and upgrade to a nicer home. Would you feel guilty with the profit you made? Would you want the government setting your price?



Now if there is collusion or price fixing, my position changes.



As Gary points out it is the varied opinion that challenges us all to think a little bigger.



Thanks for posting,

Greg

 

[Mundgyver]

Years ago when I was young, I worked as a draftsman for the Atomic Energy Commision. What I learned then, I beleive in today, if we as a country want to energy dependentant free, then there is only one way to do it. We need to go Nuclear What this means is that we build up our electric grid, bring on electric transportation and start producing Hydrogen.



You can have all the wind, sunshine, hydro-power you want, but Nuclear is like oil. You get more bank for the buck. Oil is dense in thermal units, Nuclear is denser because it last a whole lot longer. Yes it is toxic, but so is oil.



France leads the world in application of Nuclear at this time. The potential, is long lasting, unlimited output. Safety is the biggest issue and can be delt with if all future plants are standarized like they do in France.



If we as a nation want to kick off foreign oil, then there is only one option that can do that. Nuclear for electric which then makes hyrodgen for transportation.



If sombody has a better way, I like to know who and how. Our problem is the government lacks the political will to tell the tree huggers to button up and suck it up. :-{}



We are long past the stage of not knowing the hazards and how to deal with them. Let get on with it and build us a self sustaining energy system that will provide power till the SUN get jealous and vaporizes the earth with envy.

 

[JOdell]

that is why I don't go to the political forum. I am afraid I would blow a gasket. I am set in my political views and that is the way it is. It does scare me to see what is going on in this country. I read in a diffrent thread that the reason diesel is so high is because China is buying more diesel than gasoline. So why is that affecting my price. That is the only thing that would make me understand this better. I hope I didn't ruffle your feathers on that quote. Jason

 

[GFritsch]

that is why I don't go to the political forum. I am afraid I would blow a gasket. I am set in my political views and that is the way it is. It does scare me to see what is going on in this country. I read in a diffrent thread that the reason diesel is so high is because China is buying more diesel than gasoline. So why is that affecting my price. That is the only thing that would make me understand this better. I hope I didn't ruffle your feathers on that quote. Jason

Here is the link Rusty posted earlier again. Good reading, I learned quite a bit. Might answer your question. http://www.federalreserve.gov/boarddocs/speeches/2005/20051017/default.htm



No, you didn't ruffle at all.

 

[klenger]

Combining trips

We came up with a new energy saving program at our house. We've starting combing trips. Here's how it works. I left work with my truck tonight and called the wife and asked her to meet me at Safeway so that we could pick up a few things. So, she drives the car from home to the store where we meet. Since we took two vehicles, we have combined our trips. It gets better. My truck get about 20 MPG and the wife's Accord gets about 30 MPG. Adding the two together, because we are combining trips, we are getting 50 MPG. Oo.

 

[RPiltz]

Think further ahead

somebodys quote... ... . "Here's an easy answer that nobody will want to hear - SLOW DOWN!!! How many of you that are complaining about the high price of diesel and gasoline are still blasting down the road at 80 mph or faster, or are running high hp mods that burn more fuel then stock. How about the President ordering a nationwide return to the 55 mph max speed limit - you want to hear people scream?"





With all due respect to the gentlman that wrote this. This kind of thinking will keep us on our downward march to being a third worldcountry.



I call this "Speed bump mentality". Punish the masses for the mistakes of the few.



India will take us over financially. How? When she gets done building 45 safe nuke plants, she can then build a system of Mag trains, running from her ports at 300 miles an hr to her cities.



Her citizens could drive their suv up on to a high speed mag train, and whoosh off to grandmas house 1000 miles away, at 300-400 miles an hr.

Drive off the train, and on the last leg to grandmas house pull in and fuel up for a dollar a gallon, cause oil has dropped out of sight.



As I am going to work on my bicycle swerving to avoid the speed bumps!



There I feel better