engine health

[MikeBennett]

I'm considering a cummins powered '93 4wd club cab. It came from a ranch originally and the sheet metal is rough: dents in most panels, both doors replaced (different colors) front bumper bent, bed replaced with flatbed. Current owner indicates the rancher had some sort of problem with the front drive shaft (or front axle?) and removed the front driveshaft: it's missing. I have yet to drive the truck, though it is currently registered with a clean title. The current owner admitted when I started asking specific questions about the mileage (115k) that the speedometer worked "intermittently, but the odometer seemed to be fine. " I have yet to see an odometer that didn't work off the speedo in some fashion, but I guess this could be a first.



Anyway, this brings me to my question. Is there any reasonable way to determine this engine's health when I don't have the maintenance history nor can I confirm the mileage? I'm reasonably comfortable around gasoline engines, but this would be my first Cummins.



Thanks,

 

[Fordiesel69]

Here is what I would do. Show up un-anounced and ask to start it and drive it. See how it runs. Pull off a valve cover and look for lots of sludge / buildup that would indicte lots of blowby. Also when the engine is fully warm, look under the truck for a hose with steam coming out, it is the road draft tueb and is located on the driver side rear of engine. A slight simmer is fine but a rapid pulsing, excessive smoke is not good.

 

[dpuckett]

If it sounds good, runs well, and looks good under the hood, you cant go wrong. Fordiesel had some good suggestions, but I respectfully disagree about the valve covers. WHen I bought my current truck, the valve covers were black inside. 2 years later, with regular oil changes, the valve covers are actually cleaner now than then. I have a steady thin stream of blowby from the tube- I use about 2-3qts in 4-5K mi. How much is leaked, and how much is burned, I dont know. I would say more is leaked than burned.



These are pretty tough engines- mine hasnt had just the utmost in care and feeding, but is going strong now, probably close to 300K actual.



Daniel

 

[NIsaacs]

The front drive shaft missing is a bad sign, what else did they not fix/maintain?



Look at all the normal maintenance items for age/quality; like filters, battery and tires. Are they good quality/fresh or cheap/old.



After you drive it, check for fluid level/contamination in all the gear boxes. Turn the front hubs in so the front diff. will turn also shift the t-case in 4x4.



Is the air intake system stock and in good shape. No leaks or junky air filter mods. Ranchers like to use baling wire, do ya see any:-laf





"NICK"

 

[GHarman]

Show up unannounced and get an oil sample! Wait for the results. All else will need maintainence, The engine, however is the heart. If you have a pitted cam or anyother wear that is not readily visible it would behoove you to do this due dilligence. Be careful. If YOU can rebuild it, no biggie. If you got to have someone else do the work, leave it where you found it. GregH

 

[Rebel Ram]

That sounds like my Big Ugly when I got it. Pretty rough. But with some care and attention, well worth having for the right price. If you pass on it please let me know about it. I'd like a look.

 

[jimnance]

1. Oil Analysis - Look for high iron (rust/corrosion)

2. Excessive blow-by coming from breather tube

3. Do look for sludge inside the oil fil cap



Biggest problem for these engines is lack of use (rusted cam/lifters) and inadequate maintenance.



A beat up body is pretty much to be expected for a ranch truck. The disconnected drive shaft implies deferred maintenance. Maybe not a problem, but certainly worth asking why is was disconnected and oil change intervals, etc.



Short of letting the engine decay from either of the above mentioned issues the engine is pretty bullet proof.



The auto transmission is pretty tough and easy and relatively cheap to rebuild. The Getrag is OK. Some guys like 'em, but they do have a few issues. Do a search on this site.

 

[MikeBennett]

Folks,



Thanks for all the help, I appreciate the guidance and support.



I'm not really worried about the sheet metal issues. I admit the missing front drive shaft has me wondering "why?" and I'm thinking what else was just bypassed or removed instead of being repaired properly. It would be great to be able to talk with the original rancher, will have to pursue that option with the current owner.



My real concern is the engine though.



I've never done any oil sampling, though I think I understand the basic concept. Are all the companies that do oil analysis the same or do TDR members have a favorite? Once I get my results back, what constitutes "high" iron? I thought I heard the real benefit of oil analysis was the comparison between readings, not just a single reading. Can you effectively use a single sample?



I'm a bit of a gearhead, and I've rebuilt several engines in the past, though I have never tackled a diesel. If it turns out I need to rebuild a 12v CTD, what can I expect? Can someone offer a general estimate of the rebuild cost for a do-it-yourselfer? I understand there are wild variables here, just looking for a basic range or guestimates from someone who has been down this path. Also, what unusual things are involved with a CTD rebuild that I may not have experienced with my previous gas engines? Does the CTD get bored or is it a "sleeved engine?



Thanks again, I can't imagine going down this path without the help this website provides.



Mike Bennett

Madera, CA

 

[jimnance]

Tried to Google for a well respected lab that I've heard about with no luck.



Usually you buy the kit from some source. Check with your local Freightliner dealer or other HD truck company. They will have a source for oil analysis and may be able to provide the kit. Should be +/- $25. 00. When you sample, warm the engine well. Best to drive it around a bit and get the oil to operating temperature. This gets everything stirred up and suspended in the oil. When you take the sample in the provided jar let a little of the old oil drain into the drain pan first. You'll have a form to fill out with the kit. It will want type of engine, number of miles on the engine, and miles or hours since the last oil change. You send the oil sample and form to the company via the mail.



Most will fax you the result fairly quickly. Based on the information you provided they will send you the results listing various wear metal values, oil dilution (diesel fuel in the oil) etc. If a value looks high to them they will make a note to that effect.

 

[R C Cola]

Acceptable oil readings ?

Looking at mine, (3 years worth about 35 ) and the ones posted one comes to wonder where to draw the line. Started with about 10ppm iron and now at about 50ppm . Report always says " oil good for continued use check again later. (covers about 400k total) Testing labs say to base decisions on many tests over a period of time on the same engine. I do know that going extra long (like 3 or 4 times too long) on the oil change will cause a change in reading but still in above perimeters. Don't know what the report would say if the iron reading went to 250ppm never happeded. 50 is the highest I've seen. Best of luck !

 

[jimnance]

Oil analysis is best used over time. With a frequently used engine it is a long term tool to judge engine wear. In the case of a truck that has few miles and many years you are looking for corrosion which will show up as highly elevated levels of iron as the rusted parts move against each other.

 

[GHarman]

The Oil analysis from my standpoint, in this case, is to identify ANY red flag items. The cam on "Old Ugly" gave out at very low mileage and we caught it by DIVINE PROVIDENCE! Here is a complete unknown as far as the buyer is concerned. High levels of any alloy are reason for taking a second look or asking the seller to pay you to take this vehicle offn his hands. Unless he is asking scrap price I would think there are better choices in vehicles out there. GregH

 

[cojhl2]

How much do they want for it? What are you willing to pay for risk? What are you going to use it for?



Many Farmers take good care of maint but don't care about looks and dirt. How do his other vehicles look?

 

[dpuckett]

I agree with cojhl2- just because it was a farmer's truck doesnt mean in and of itself that the truck wasnt taken care of. Are there farmers who cut corners and extend oil changes and maintenance? Sure. But you have those in every crowd, regardles of what the truck is used for. Farmers and ranchers use their equipment and trucks hard, sure, but hard use doesnt mean it was abused, it was just worked. I think the CTD Dodge is the most able to take it. Especially the engine. We hear all about how to maintain and prolong the life of these great engines, (they ARE great, dont get me wrong) when they are the toughest engines in automotive history. What else can go as long, with as average of maintenance, and still be healthy after 600, 800, 1000K mi? I cant think of one.



I'd still take my chances with one that's been worked and a little rough around the edges than an overpriced cream puff anyday. Many times you can redo the abused/ overowrke done and still be money ahead of the cream puff with 15yr old rotting OEM junk on it. I am there right now with my 92. I have in it about what it's worth on the open market- $5-6K.



DP