Engine question???

[Devildog]

What is the difference between a 5. 9 ISB and the ETH and will the injectors interchange from one to the other?

 

[Bob Wagner]

here ya go, Enjoy

http://dodgeram.org/tech/dsl/Facts/01ISBspecs.html

 

[TxDieselKid]

so whats the difference....?

It looks like there are 4 other injectors that fit besides the Dodge ones (hence the RV's). It looks like there are 6 ECM's (ETC -50/Cal, ETH- 50/Cal, Torqus Maxius -50/Cal) and the 200 pin, am I right?



Anybody got info on the injectors?



AJB

 

[Evan A. Beck]

There are a ton of different ECM's for the B-series engines... However, there is no "200-pin" ECM. I don't know who first started this, but it is false. There is a 100-pin ECM with dual 50-pin connectors, which is used on all ISB series engines except for the QSB and the Chrysler engines. The capabilities in the dual 50-pin ECM are amazing. Anything and everything is adjustable. I have explored many of them with Cummins INSITE software. Pretty cool stuff.



The ETH also has a different injection pump. Still uses the VP44, but just a different version. Contrary to popular belief, the ETH pump actually has smaller plungers in it, and the injection duration begins sooner, and ends sooner.



There's plenty more changes for the ETH, including removable valve seats and slightly higher compression ratio. Flyhwheel and clutch are different too.

 

[TxDieselKid]

Ah, Mr. Beck I presume.....

So Evan, have you played with the Insite software and the Chrysler ECM. I know it takes the Inline II to hook it up. I am VERY intrested in getting my hands on this even though it costs 2 arms, and 1 1/2 legs.



If you don't want big brother to know e-mail, or PM me.



Thanks,

AJB

 

[Evan A. Beck]

*LOL* Big brother... I disowned "big brother" when I bought my truck. It's never been on Chrysler property since that day waaaaay back in April of '00...



Anyways, the INSITE tool can do all kinds of neat stuff, but only on the non-Chrysler ECM's. That is, we get the shaft. There are a lot of functions that have been left out. I think it would be easier to mention what we have versus what we don't have. IF they had given the Ram a true Cummins ECM, we would have electric fan clutches, idle control, etc. You name it, we'd have it. All of the motorhomes and heavier trucks I work on have the good ECM, and the capabilities are virtually endless. PTO speeds, cruise options, fan clutch operation, and hoards of other good stuff is all in there. Kind of a pity they left it all out on out trucks.



THe INSITE tool can tell you just about anything you ever wanted to know about your truck, via the ECM. You can see fuel rate, actual MPG, idle time, abuse records, torque graphs, average engine load, hourmeter... The list goes on an on... You can check and reset fault codes too, much like typical DRB scanners. However, with INSITE, you can see when the fault occurred, and what the conditions were when it happened. Pretty cool. You'd be surprised what is stored in the ECM.



There is another version of the Cummins software/hardware available, and it is very expensive. This is the reprogramming stuff. It's called the ESDN tool, and only authorized Cummins dealers/service centers such as Kenworth, Peterbilt, and Western Star, are allowed to have it.



You won;t gain much by buying the INSITE tool for just "recreational" use. Nothing in the Chrysler ECM can be changed with it. If you had a motorhome or heavy truck, it would be worth it for sure. Let me know if you want more information.

 

[Mschevey]

Have you considered changing the Dodge ECM to a CUMMINS ECM. It should hook up to the engine with no problem, but the connection to the Truck systems would have to be interesting, to say the least.



If two or three very knowledgeable people could get together I think this would work. One person who knows the Dodge ECM, a second who knows the Cummins 100 pin ECM, and a possible third who was good at electronics engineering (communication protocols etc. ), they should be able to in a brief time make a conversion package.



Next question, (should have been first), Will Cummins sell us just the better ECM or would we have to disguise what it was for?



Mike

 

[TxDieselKid]

switching the ecm...I wish

Evan,

Do I want more? Heck yea, I want that ESDN. From what I heard the Insite has 2 versions, lite and pro, I thought the pro was the ESDN software? Where there is a will there is a way my friend.



As for changing out the ECM's, it wont work. The reason is that the Chrysler PCM wont be able to communicate with the Cummins ECM. The Chrysler one has different communication made only for our trucks.



Now wanting the ESDN,

AJB

 

[Archive]

Excellent posts, Evan. Thanks.

 

[Mschevey]

I think that with enough tinkering that the Cummins ECM should be able to go into our trucks. The protocol used for communication from the ECM has to be the same because the rest of the engine is still Cummins ISB without mod’s. We just need to find out the pin-out for the 100 pin Cummins ECM and the pin-out for the Dodge ECM. Then make an appropriate adapter to keep the Cummins ECM feeding the right information to the Dodge PCM. (I know, enough with the acronyms. )



If somebody can provide wiring schematics of both ECM’s I think it would work, provided we can get Cummins to sell us an ECM.



(I am a mechanical engineer who spends to much time playing with electronics. According to people who know me anyhow. )



Mike.

 

[C1B1DIESEL]

I have a wire diagram for a 2000 dodge. ( ecm PN. 3946242) and one for a cummins. (ecm PN. 3942860,3944124)

I do not know how to post the pictures that I have scanned

Dodge ecm uses a 1- 50 pin connector on the ecm and cummins use 2- 50 pin connectors

 

[Mschevey]

C1B1DIESEL



Can you send the scanned images to me as an e-mail or private message.



Has anyone tried to do a conversion befor between the two ECM's.



Mike