Engine rattle on take off

[DFairhurst]

Truck starts an idles fine, but when i take off it rattles like the valves are out of adjustment.

It all started when i added the latest mods ddp 50 hp nossles, airdog165, smarty pod all in the same week. i have been running the edge an smarty stacked. smarty on 2 its worse on 4 an 6 it sound s like it drops a cyl an coughs off the line. so i have been running it on 2. after about 1600the rattle goes away an runs fine with good power. it does it through 3rd gear then pulls the other gears with out the rattle. i removed the chips an samething it seems to happen when the rpms go low im thinking it may be the FCA or the Relief Valve i double check valves there fine an no fuel leaks, an changed the oil after injectors were installed a did it 1000 mile later... when i installed the smarty i played with the pressure for the first day or two " mild" then turned it off worried about blowing the relief valve spring. i dont wann just start throwing money into things i dont need . tomorrow in going to a shop an having the rail pressure tested an check the return line with scanner. anyone had this problem??? its getting worst everyday#@$%!. oh truck has 62k on it.

 

[AH64ID]

If it turns out to be the FCA you may consider upping your fuel filtration.

Good luck.

 

[DFairhurst]

The air dog has W/F seperator with, I think, a 7micron filter. Was going to trade them out for fleetguards but haven't gotten around to it yet. When I dropped my tank it was very clean, so I don't think it's contaminated fuel.

 

[AH64ID]

The air dog has W/F seperator with, I think, a 7micron filter. Was going to trade them out for fleetguards but haven't gotten around to it yet. When I dropped my tank it was very clean, so I don't think it's contaminated fuel.

The AD has a f/w sep rated at 50% free and 0% emulsified water, at 140um at 20GPH. The Final fuel filter is 5um absolute. Stock requirement is 95% free and 95% emulsified water removal at 34 GPH (for stock fuel flow).



Upping the f/w sep to something reasonable will really increase fuel system component life.



let us know what the scanner finds today.

 

[DFairhurst]

i knew the AD wasnt as good as the fleetguard i have been running in the stock location but didnt know it was that bad. . ordering fleetguards today!

well im off to scan the truck so let you guys know tonite after work the pressures

 

[AH64ID]

i knew the AD wasnt as good as the fleetguard i have been running in the stock location but didnt know it was that bad. . ordering fleetguards today!

well im off to scan the truck so let you guys know tonite after work the pressures

Which fleetguards? The AD filters are fleetguard.

 

[DFairhurst]

ah the w/f sep is fs19594 i was looking at on another thread but dont know on the main one . if you happen to know the part #'s an the microns that would b great.

 

[DFairhurst]

So i tested the rail pressure used a SNAP ON scanner, i did it my self because the guy that is normally there was off today. So i figures out how to read the pressure. . idle 7052psi, 1600rpm 11298psi,WOT spiked 17070... not sure but i think thats VERY low. though it was suppose to be 24k to27k spike. that was with no chips jus 50 hp nozzles.

Im going to go back tomorrow an drop my truck off for the day an have them test the fuel pressure out of the AD, an the other guy should be back so i think he has a few FCA's lying around have him swap them an see if it make a difference. im worried that it might be the rail relief valve? was wondering if i could cap it and see if the pressure came back up or is there a better way to test the it? i read some were that you can, but they didnt go into detail on how jus that you could. . fuel return somethan i dont remember. any way if anyone has dealt with this problem before or knows how to test if that relief valve is working properly i would be greatly appreciative . also if it was that cap an i drove it for 50 start to rest the key codes would it be covered under the 7/100000 warranty?

 

[AH64ID]

You should be able to hit 23206psi WOT, at upper rpms. If not then something is wrong, could be FCA, could be relief valve. Your idle seems good, but even 1600 seems low. The stock pump should have no issues fueling 50hp nozzles.

 

[JJPage]

You can cap your rail by removing the banjo bolt from the rail relief valve and replacing with a solid bolt and neoprene washer. If you still have pressure issues at wot, then I would go back and retorque all your cross tubes, in fact, I would probably do that first.



It seems since it all just started after new nozzles, and now low injection pressure @ wot, the programmers nor the AD would cause that, it is most likely an injector(s) tip or cross tube(s) leaking, it is easier to retorque the tubes first.

 

[DFairhurst]

Ya i though WOT was low. Didnt get a chance to drop it off at the shop to day but ordered FCA anyway going to install that on thursday when it shows up, an retest the rail pressure and try retorquing the cross tubes. .

I reloaded the smarty on 6, an ran the edge on 4 thats 125 hp "one of the 1st hot juices only 5 settings not 6" still rattled made GOOD power on bottom but does feel like it falls on the top end so i wonder if it is the relief valve. ? I will cap that if the fca an retorque doesnt change the pressure.

does anyone know if the relief valve is covered under the 7/100,000 warranty? if not maybe the cummins pn#? thank again for all your help

 

[DFairhurst]

Just replaced the FCA and tested the rail pressure an idle 7638, an 1600 rpm 14213, and WOT 23206. A lot better from before 7052,11298,1707. Havent drove it enough to tell if it picked up power on the top or got rid of that rattle @ 1600 but the rail pressure is WAY better.

 

[JJPage]

Good deal, let us know.

 

[CoryBeck]

What did you find out on this one? One of my students has a 03. It was starting hard so we checked the lift pump pressure. It was low so he installed a FASS. Things were good for a month. Then one day it wouldnt start. He got 6 reman injectors from dynamite diesel. Truck started and ran fine for 15 min. Then it started cutting out at idle. It is really choppy, like a on and off miss. We did cut out test and tried to isolate it to a certain cylinder but cant locate it. We checked rail psi and if I remember it was ok. I know he has changed the IPR valve on the CP3. Really bad at idle, not so bad off idle and smooth at 1600-1700 rpm. Truck still gets 25mpg!!! Thanks

 

[DFairhurst]

Sorry its taking me so long I drive the big brown truck @ work an this time of year is crazy for us, but got to get you your packages before x-mas.

Anyway it still rattles rail pressure is better though. Im going to try an retorque the cross tubes tomorrow an get the latest software update for the smarty if that doesnt work going back in an checking the injectors install again#@$%!. I dont think the bodies are bad I never had the problems before the nozzles, but wondering if i should have them pop tested?

 

[JWadford]

larger injectors can increase timing also. i can make my 03 rattle like a powerstroke with too much timing, also 7000 sounds high at low idle, i thought it should be 5-6k, did you try driving the truck to put a load on the engine, a wot run will give you your max loaded rp 17k seems a little low at high idle no load, my guage will run out of numbers if i do that at 27k, to me it is starting to sound like an fca problem, can you borrow one off of a buddys truck to try out? nevermind about the fca comment, i didnt read the whole thing before i opened my big mouth. :-laf

 

[CoryBeck]

No problem I feel for u guys this time of year. Just had a killer snow storm, but the big brown trucks were still going. Im sorta at my wits end with this thing. I feel bad and want to help him out though. He graduated last spring and works for Cat now. My buddies that work there give him crap bout it being a Cummins. We thought we had it found with a cylinder cut out test. We pulled out #1 and sent it back to Dynamite and they said it had a sticking plunger. We re torqued everything and replaced the fuel quill tubes. I wish we could just pull all 6 and replace them. I have a few CR 5. 9 engines on stands we rebuild for class. I thought about pulling the injectors and trying them out as testers. Im not sure what years are compatible. It has to be an injector problem!!! It never did this until we replaced them. A friend at Cummins(field tech) said they had troubles with the ECM spiking current to a injector and wiping it out. The problem is we cant use Cummins Insite(Lap Top Software) on a 03 or newer. MAC and Snap On readers work. I will do some checking and see if our 05 injectors would work for testing on his 03. Any input would be great. Thanks

 

[DFairhurst]

On that 03' what kinda of fuel filter is he running in it? If he changed injectors an used a stock dodge filter 10 micron w/ dirt or any thing in the tank he could have just blown the injectors out again.

Went to DDP web site diffrent pn# for 03-04 and 04. 5-07 so I dont think you can swap them around. . sorry

 

[JJPage]

No problem I feel for u guys this time of year. Just had a killer snow storm, but the big brown trucks were still going. Im sorta at my wits end with this thing. I feel bad and want to help him out though. He graduated last spring and works for Cat now. My buddies that work there give him crap bout it being a Cummins. We thought we had it found with a cylinder cut out test. We pulled out #1 and sent it back to Dynamite and they said it had a sticking plunger. We re torqued everything and replaced the fuel quill tubes. I wish we could just pull all 6 and replace them. I have a few CR 5. 9 engines on stands we rebuild for class. I thought about pulling the injectors and trying them out as testers. Im not sure what years are compatible. It has to be an injector problem!!! It never did this until we replaced them. A friend at Cummins(field tech) said they had troubles with the ECM spiking current to a injector and wiping it out. The problem is we cant use Cummins Insite(Lap Top Software) on a 03 or newer. MAC and Snap On readers work. I will do some checking and see if our 05 injectors would work for testing on his 03. Any input would be great. Thanks

They(03 vs 05) may work for testing purposes, because the bodies and solonoids are identicle, but the tips are quite different.



03 tips have 8 holes w/143* spray angle, w/piston dome of 113*, 05 tips have 5 holes w/124* spray angle, w/piston dome of 140*.

 

[CoryBeck]

I figured they would have different tips because of the different teir emissions. Just as long as we can throw them in, run it and see if the idle cuts in and out. As for the filtration we installed a FASS 150 system when it was starting hard(before the injectors went out)