Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Engine shot at 192000 miles, need air filter suggestions

[paulsmith]

I have a 2001 HO Six Speed. It has had blow by for the last 30,000 miles, but finally got so bad you could not stand by the truck at idle. I finally broke down and had the engine re-built. Kinda bummed out... only 192,000 miles... .



Anyway, $8043. 09 later, I have a new engine. All new pistons, 5 bored 40 over, and one stock, as the block had to be sleeved! (worn too far for a overbore)



I asked the shop what was damaged, he said it was just worn out.



I bought the truck with 130,000 on it, used. It was stone stock. Not sure about the 1st owner, but it sure looked stock. After I bought it, I installed a big K and N Cone filter on it, and later installed a set of the lowest power F1 injestors (just over stock)



While at the shop, the head was taken to the machine shop. the machinist looks the head over visually, then turns around and asked my mechanic "Did this guy have a K & N?, I can tell by the wear on this head, that it had a K & N air filter on this engine"



He could tell, without ever seeing the truck, or the rest of the engine, that I was running K & N air filter.



He went on to say they do flow more air, but they dont filter well.



What kind of filter do I need for my new $8000 engine?



PAul Smith

 

[ILIANBG]

I've read on the forums here the K&N are not recommended because of the same reason - unsuffisient filtration. I'm sorry you had to experience this, hopefully other people will read this, and prevent such costly repairs.

Ilian

 

[Cummins Thunder]

AFE ProGuard 7

IMO, as good as oiled gauze gets



CJ

 

[klaybus]

What kind of filter do I need for my new $8000 engine?



PAul Smith

I run the AFE ProGuard 7. From everything I've read, it flows more air & is approved by Cummins. If I'm wrong, I'm sure someone will correct me!



Clay

 

[Mundgyver]

Hold up any K&N to the sky and look at it. You will see nothing but pin holes. Pin holes allow dirt/dust to get through which is like sand paper.



A BHAF filter from Cummins works very well. You will have all the air you can handle and it is clean from the get go.

 

[FourBarR]

here we go again on K&N . my truck has 430000 kms and has had a K&N since new. It uses no oil between changes at 6000 k. minimum blowby. turbo clean with no oil on the impeller. inside of hose from turbo to to air cleaner clean. Its all in the method used to service the K&N and making sure the air filter box is tight with no air leaks. I know lots of members have issues with this but this has been my expierence. I was a diesel mechanic for many years and have been an aircraft maintenance engineer with A&P for 23 years, and would never do anything that would harm the Cummins. I deal with Brackett air filters on aircraft which are foam pre-oiled ,they produce lots of the lubricant on the impeller and ozzing out the filter box. if you hold them up to the light you can see pin holes. let the flames begin.

 

[JasonCzerak]

I personally think a K/N or any oiled filter is to light for any thing pushing 20+ PSI of boost.



The K/N is good for N/A motors and lightly boosted

 

[TJarecke]

BHAF

Works very well. Filters down further than aftermarket filters. Costed less than 4hp on the dyno with outerwears installed. With outerwears, they last a long time. No worries about inproper cleaning and oiling procedures.

My . 02

 

[Mundgyver]

A K&N at altitude will work very well I agree, no dust to deal with. At ground level though it is a whole different story. I'm not flaming here, but that is just the way it is.



I have friend that runs the Buick GN Turbo cars. He used to run the K&N and it would make/add HP to performance. The one thing that he discovered was that the Mass Air Flow sensor was becoming covered with a layer of very fine dust that destroys the sensors ability to provide good data. AT $400 a pop, it took 2 Mass Air Flow sensor to be ruined before he realized / discovered the source, that being the K&N. This guy is a motor/gear head and knows his stuff,and has been an engineer for over 20 years.



My back ground like yours is Aviation having started in 1974. If your comfortable with the K&N and it works for you, go for it, but application in an aircraft at altitude is completely different than down in the dirt on terra-firma

 

[BBliss]

it is very dependant on the conditions where a person lives. If there is a lot of fine dust in the air then the k&n doesn't work worth a crap. If you live in a cool moist climate they are not that bad.

 

[HPetrat]

Interesting comments on the K&N filters.

Bought the filter and installed it my 98 12V. There was no notable power improvement but it certainly was louder (intake air and turbo whistle).

During a conversation with a tech at TST (I believe) he recommended not running the K&N as it did not filter well as claimed, the filter made no difference on the dyno at all and concerns with the filter oil in the turbo.

I did change to the Fleetguard BHAF with an Outerwears cover, but only because of the response (or lack thereof) that I received from K&N. Every email inquiry prior to purchasing was immediately answered, however, when I asked (several times) with the concerns raised by the TST tech, no answer.

Eventually I phoned and they simply replied that they stand by there claims which to me is not an adequate answer but rather "squirming", so after 3 weeks bye -bye K&N.



Remember:If it flows twice as much air but is exactly the same physical dimension (ie: fits in the stock air box) it cannot possibly filter the air as well regardless of the filter medium.



HP.

 

[Mundgyver]

You have just nailed it on the head. If it fits the same opening but flows more air, how can it be equivelant for filtering? To flow more air in the same space across the filter box means there must be less filter media or bigger holes/air passages in the filter itself.



These engines cost way too much for me to trust it's health to a marginal filtering product that while yes it flows more air will allow the engine to be sandpapered (dust particles do wear metal away).



If one wants more air, then make the jump and install a bigger filter to allow for more filtering area, thus equaling greater unrestricted air flow. Thats the bottom line.

 

[Todd T]

I'm going to raise the BS flag on this one!



First you say you bought it with 130,000 miles on it. (we'll come back to this). next you said you put a K&N filter and drove it for another 62K miles.



second,your machinist is full up to the brim with BS. There is no way he can look at a cylinder head and KNOW or even have reason to suspect it had a K&N filter on it. do you visit psychics often?



I would love to have 30 minutes with this guy to hear his thoery on the subject.



Now, the mileage, OK lets say owner #1 ran the truck as a service truck or the likes and let it sit around and wet stack (idle) all the time. Plus he was a real busy fella and didnt change his oil and filters (air and oil) too often and when he did it was a quicky lube joint he went to with cheap oil. Wouldnt it be easy to build a reasonable argument for the 40 thousands over boring being needed by the hypothetical above or should we just assume it was the 62K with the K&N fiilter that totaly distroyed that $8000 engine of yours?



My point is, you bought a truck with 130,000 miles on it. Mileage is no guage of the hours the truck has on it. nor does it indicate the conditions it was operated under. it is totaly unfair to blame an air filter when there are 100's of variables that are unknown and more logical.



Carry on!

Todd

 

[paulsmith]

I never said that the K and N was the FAULT of the lost engine. I was clear that I bought the truck with 130,000 miles, and it has had blow by for quite some time. Funny how this engine has the blow by tube right in the radiator fan so it has to get BAD before you notice it. I am pretty sure that the engine was showing signs of wear when the first owner sold it. Very likely that is why it was sold. I do think the K & N contributed to the problem.



The owner of the machine shop said what he said without ANY prompting. Without any suggestions. Nothing... . Right out of the blue, he ASKED if the truck had a K and N filter.



The bottom end of the truck was flawless. The rods were not touched or re-sized, the crank was perfect. Only new bearings were installed. Only the top end was worn, with one cylinder worn beyond repair.



In my opinion, It is obvious a K and N unit does not FILTER air better than stock. It may be OK in some applications. Like many of us, I buy my trucks to WORK. I am not running a marine application, this is a over the road, (sometimes gravel roads and dusty truck stops) I want high flow, for maximum power, but I will not sacrifice durability. In fact I want something better than stock.



I ordered a BHAF yesterday.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

TDR #37, p. 26 has an article on filtration vs. dyno hp.

 

[LMcCary]

Aircraft fly high above the earth, so they do not need the same filtration. In most cases the Oiled type of filter does a poor job of small particle filtration. Always use filters that are the same filtration spec or better.

 

[FourBarR]

not the airplanes we fly. dirt strips,logging roads lots of dust. our float planes with the p/w 985 dont use filters at all.

 

[NoSeeUm]

I'm going to raise the BS flag on this one!



First you say you bought it with 130,000 miles on it. (we'll come back to this). next you said you put a K&N filter and drove it for another 62K miles.



second,your machinist is full up to the brim with BS. There is no way he can look at a cylinder head and KNOW or even have reason to suspect it had a K&N filter on it. do you visit psychics often?



I would love to have 30 minutes with this guy to hear his thoery on the subject.



Now, the mileage, OK lets say owner #1 ran the truck as a service truck or the likes and let it sit around and wet stack (idle) all the time. Plus he was a real busy fella and didnt change his oil and filters (air and oil) too often and when he did it was a quicky lube joint he went to with cheap oil. Wouldnt it be easy to build a reasonable argument for the 40 thousands over boring being needed by the hypothetical above or should we just assume it was the 62K with the K&N fiilter that totaly distroyed that $8000 engine of yours?



My point is, you bought a truck with 130,000 miles on it. Mileage is no guage of the hours the truck has on it. nor does it indicate the conditions it was operated under. it is totaly unfair to blame an air filter when there are 100's of variables that are unknown and more logical.



Carry on!

Todd

Todd;



Take no offense, but it gets pretty simple for some of us. There are identified problems with the K&N as well as the obvious enhancements.



I took my K&N off, it was a personal choice. I choose increased filtration over a slight drop in media differential pressure. I felt that this compromise was justified. I can live with out the 15 Hp and / or just pull my foot a little sooner to control EGT.



In general I am not a fan of oiled type air filters. Nor I am not completely satisfied with the BHAF either. Until I can work out a better method for cold air delivery. Buts it is staying until I do.



Jim

 

[NoSeeUm]

not the airplanes we fly. dirt strips,logging roads lots of dust. our float planes with the p/w 985 dont use filters at all.

Also typically aircraft engines get rebuilt much more often.



Jim

 

[FourBarR]

dont mean to to press the point but a 985 cu. in engine sucks a lot of air in 1600 hours. at 120m. p. h. it puts on a few miles in that time.