Engine shut down, now not able to start - any ideas?

[MJReynolds]

My 07.5 has 71,000 miles and is completely stock. The only thing I've done recently is the EGR cleaning service about 2 months ago and about 2 weeks ago I changed the batteries after it was getting hard to start. When it was slow to start it set the CEL and had 2 codes for low voltage. I put in new batteries and cleaned all the connections and it's been starting great since then.

So on Saturday morning I drove about 90 miles to another town and everything was normal. When I started the truck to leave later in the day it started normally and I was waiting in a parking lot to get going. After idling for maybe 5 minutes the truck just quit. The CEL and E throttle lights came on. I put the truck in park and tried to restart it but it wouldn't turn over. Normally the water-in-fuel (WIF) light comes on and if I listen carefully I can hear the fuel pump running but this time nothing. After trying for a couple of minutes it turned over and started. I then got out of the parking lot and was just getting moving when it quit again. I got to the side of the road and the same symptoms were present. Again after about 5 minutes or so it restarted and the codes went away and everything looked normal. I got onto the freeway headed home and it ran normal for about 50 miles then it just shut down again. I coasted to the side of the road and waited but this time it wouldn't restart. When I turn the key to start the WIF light doesn't come on and the fuel pump doesn't start. I called AAA and got it towed to my local Dodge dealer. It was Saturday night so I couldn't do much more. On Sunday afternoon I went back by to see if maybe it would start and to hook up my scanner and check for codes. It still wouldn't start and no codes were showing but I also notice something new. Previously the dash would show the gear shift indication (PRND) but now that doesn't show up.

I've searched here and other forums and it seems like it's either the TIPM or the ECM. Both are pretty expensive so I'd like to know if there's anything I should watch out for or ask when the technician gets a chance to look at the truck tomorrow or Wednesday.

I was wondering if starting the truck with low batteries for about a week may have led to the TIPM failing?

Thanks,

 

[MichaelOverfield]

Wow, that is quite the story.. I'm not sure, but I think you may be on to something.. I just replaced my batteries (a bit early, mines a 2009), I was primarily was concerned about charging and starting system damage with low batteries, but seems that would perhaps not be all one should be concerned with given the extensive electronics on these, I have heard about TIPM issues, and I'd assume low voltage, and/or spikes in voltage can't be good for electronics, there is normally quite the fluctuation just with the grid heaters in use, seems that would be made even worse with weak batteries, I was just beginning to see it on mine.

Given the erratic indications you are now seeing, sounds like TIPM or ECM could be likely culprit, that and the other symptoms you mention. Hope it does not hit too hard in the wallet to get this fixed. Please keep us posted when you get more on the cause.

 

[Hoefler]

Have you check your battery voltage?? You may simply have a bad alternator.

 

[MJReynolds]

The dash gauge was indicating about 14 volts while the truck was running. No indication that the alternator was not putting out enough current. I haven't heard anything from the dealer yet, their
diesel tech was already booked up with other work so my truck may have to wait for a few days.

 

[MJReynolds]

So after about a month in the shop I got the truck back. Turns out the engine computer/ECM had failed. New ECM installed and reprogrammed and it's running normally again. The total cost ended up being $3,100 which puts a real dent in my budget for the next few months.

No real idea of what caused the failure. Could just be a random fault or a maybe it had something to do with the battery problems I was having earlier in the year. I don't know if low voltage would damage the ECM. I could understand if there was an over voltage condition but I don't know enough about the ECM to even speculate. I thought about buying a re-manufactured ECM and installing it myself but was nervous about how well it might work and if it wasn't programmed properly causing even more problems. It would have been about 1/2 the cost but I decided just to go with the Dodge dealer and at least they give a 2 year guarantee on the repair.

So if you get the following symptoms you're probably looking at needing a new ECM.
- Engine Shutoff while driving
- No Start
- No Engine Codes (scanner can't read anything from ECM)
- PRND Transmission Shift indicator not displayed
- No WIF Indicator Light when key move to run position

 

[MichaelOverfield]

Quite the saga there. Knowing a few things about electronics.. I think your prior low voltage may have contributed.. but it is impossible to be sure. Ohm's law would dictate that if you are running low on volts for a time prior to failure, with weak batteries.. then your current draw for all items, including the ECM go up. For the same power demand, as volts go down, current goes up. Bigger current needs bigger path, and inside the ECM.. that is not possible. Some damage might have manifested itself later on.. This is also true for the entire electrical system, starter, relays, wires, everything, every motor, etc. At 7 years, I replaced my batteries, even when they seemed pretty strong still.. because it is not worth the risk of all those items to run a battery all the way down, when 7 years is pretty good for a battery in any case.

Hope all goes well from this point going forward. That is a tough situation to have for sure.