engine stall fixed?

[SHimmell]

I have a 2003 HO 6 spd, and had a problem that I hope is solved but I thought I would ask some of you learned people to make sure. Recently I did about 300 mi of highway driving unloaded at normal speed. The outdoor temp was in the upper 90s. When I was nearing home I noticed the malfunction indicator light in the dash was on. About a mile later the engine started to lose power and almost die. I pulled over and turned off the engine for a while. About 5 minutes later I restarted and made it about 5 mi home with no problem but the light still on. I drained the fuel filter / water separator and changed the filter (with good guidance from this website). I didn't notice any water but the first amount got away from me and went on the pavement. After I primed the fuel system and started the engine it seemed to run fine but the indicator light was still on. That was yesterday. Today I went out to drive it to my Dodge dealer and drop it off with my wife following. Today the indicator light was out and it ran fine. I ran at different conditions for 10-15 mi and everything still looks fine. Stopped and started it several times. My questions is this - is this problem resolved? Did the engine have to be restarted a couple of times for the light to reset? I thought maybe the indicator light would stay on until the dealer looked at the codes and turned it off. I don't want to get too far from home if there is still a liklihood of a problem. ! Thanks for your help.

 

[rbattelle]

First of all, welcome to the TDR.



Your isolated incident is too difficult to diagnose here, unless someone has actually experienced the same thing. The MIL light will go out within a few restarts if the code that set it doesn't reappear. However, the code will remain stored in memory for 40 consecutive warmup cycles. Along with the code will be a "freeze frame" of data that was taken just as the code occurred, so anyone with a code reader knows all the engine paramters at the time the code came up (speed, RPM, temp, boost, throttle %, etc. ).



Ask the dealer what the code was when you get the truck back. Was the engine overheating? Did all the gauges read "normal"? Was the water-in-fuel light on?



Could be any number of things. Probably something that got too hot and shut down. Lift pump might do something like that. Do you have any aftermarket stuff we should know about?



-Ryan

 

[SHimmell]

Thanks for the insightful comments. First, my only aftermarket equipment is an Espar heater. I hope that the engine malfunction problem was just a dirty fuel filter or water in the fuel (although I did not see that indicator). I was just concerned that the problem comes and goes and if I didn't fix it with the filter, it will come right back when I least expect (or need) it. I drove it back home today since it appeared fine and the dealer is closed, but will take it to the dealer tomorrow so he can read the stored codes as you mentioned. I also just learned my Dodge dealer has just been sold and no longer has a diesel tech. I assume if there is an engine problem the service will go to the local Cummins shop. Again thanks for the great insight.

 

[Alan Reagan]

Three good starts with the error not present will usually exstinguish the light. The code remains set and the dealer can read it.

 

[SHimmell]

I took my truck to the Dodge dealer today to read the error code. They said it was a single code set only one time. The problem was the ratio of fuel pressure to fuel pump amperage was low and showed as a lean fuel condition. It also indicated I had were a number of successful starts without the problem since the code was set. He told me 8 or so successful starts were required to clear the indicator light. They told me it was probably just a single glitch and not to worry. The truck is running fine now with no engine malfunction inidcator light so I guess I'll just assume the problem is resolved. Thanks to Ryan and Alan for the comments.

 

[rbattelle]

The problem was the ratio of fuel pressure to fuel pump amperage was low and showed as a lean fuel condition.

That's very confusing. Any chance you might get them to give you the numerical code it set? As far as I know the injector pump doesn't draw any current, so the code might refer to the lift pump (there is a high/low voltage warning code for the lift pump circuit).



I'd hate for them to have told you that the problem was a fluke when in reality your lift pump is dying and you're driving on borrowed time.



-Ryan

 

[SHimmell]

I went back to the dealer today for the code number. They said the code had been deleted in the truck and they had not recorded it but thought it was P0221. Ryan - your thought is the same as mine. Is it fixed? I guess I drive it guarded the next month or so locally waiting to see. How much is a spare low lift pump anyway?! Probably more than I want to pay for a potential, maybe problem.

 

[rbattelle]

There is no such code as P0221 for 2003 trucks. It stinks that they didn't record the number somewhere.



P0628 is "low voltage detected at the lift pump"

P0629 is "high voltage detected at the lift pump"

P0251 is "CP3 pump regulator control"



For P0251 the description is:

"The ECM detects a discrepancy between the PWM supplied to the electronic fuel control actuator and the PWM returned from the electronic fuel control actuator. "



PWM is "Pulse Width Modulation". It's a common method of controlling the speed of a DC motor. The fuel control actuator is the small black part on the backside of the CP-3 that has a couple wires going to it. I'm not entirely sure how it works; I thought it was just a valve with a servo on it, but apparently not if it's using PWM. It's purpose in life is to regulate how much fuel goes to the CP-3 enroute to the engine and how much gets circulated through the CP-3 and back to the tank for cooling/lubrication. The bad news is the part cannot be replaced or repaired independent of the CP-3; you must purchase a new CP-3.



I'm not saying that was the code they got, but "251" sounds close to "221". There are only 6 reasons for that code to come up:



1. An intermittent condition (catchall term used with every single code in the book )

2. A bad FCA

3. Broken return wire from the FCA to the ECM

4. Broken supply wire from the FCA to the ECM

5. Supply circuit shorted

6. Bad ECM



We can rule out a bad ECM since the truck seems to be running good now. I recommend having a look at the wires where they exit the FCA. If you have trouble locating it, I'll take a picture of it for you and post it. Check to see that the wires are routed properly, away from any high heat sources and anything mechanical they could get stuck in.



So what's the worse that can happen? Well, let's say your FCA is on its way out. One day you'll be driving along and the truck will die on you again just like it did before. Only this time, it won't restart. The only cure will be a new CP-3. The good news is, I don't think it will damage anything else in the engine (injectors should be safe).



Try not to be too worried about it. It is entirely possible that the dealer is right and it was literally a fluke caused by a series of unfortunate sensor/atmospheric/driving/load conditions. Just remember, if this ever happens again GET THE CODE! You can get the codes to show up in the odometer window yourself by cycling the key from "OFF" to "RUN" 3 times (leave it in "RUN" the 3rd time). Good luck and try not to worry.



-Ryan

 

[SHimmell]

Ryan - you are a wealth of information. I will certainly follow your advice. I'm somewhat familar with the pulse width modulation you mention in my use of AC variable frequency drives to simulate a normal sine wave form, and assume it has something to do with the rate and pattern the fuel is delivered to the injectors in our trucks?



Thanks for the time you have taken to provide this information to me. I'll post again if anything else develops on this. I can' help but show a copy of this email to my Dodge dealer!



Thanks again.

 

[AlexWV]

You can get pretty decent code readers for around $100. A very useful tool to have in the box in this day and age of vehicles that do whatever the hell they want. Something to consider.



You can get the code, the pending codes (the ones that will turn on the light if they happen again), the freeze frames, bla bla bla. If you spend a little more you can get scanning ability which reads data on the fly. And you can turn the light off. Nice to know these things without having to go to the dealer every time. Especially useful if you do modifications.

 

[SHimmell]

Thanks Alex. Do you have a brand and website of a code reader you like?

 

[AlexWV]

Take a look at Equus/Innova and read up on their Equus 3100.

http://www.iequus.com/



Amazon.com has it for $99. 99 right now. Some sites have it for as high as $140.



I have an Auto XRay EZ-Read 1000 which I got for less than $100 at Kragen.

http://www.autoxray.com/products.aspx



Usually I don't buy things from the manufacturers sites themselves because they always seem to be higher than can be found on their dealers sites.

 

[rbattelle]

SHimmell - did the problem ever come back?



-Ryan

 

[Prairie Dog]

Guys you dont need a code reader to read codes. Just turn the key on 3 times within 5 seconds and the codes will be displayed on your dash. You can get a list of all codes here on the TDR if you do a search.

BTW, 9 consecutive starts will extinguish the check eng light if the problem does not persist.



Scotty

 

[SHimmell]

response to Ryan

Thanks for remembering. No, the problem has not reoccurred. (now watch it come back tomorrow!!) The Dodge dealer is on alert and has promised to replace the sensor if it reoccurs any time soon. Did you end up installing a preheater? Another good winter with my Espar.