Enron Uses FUZZY Math to Steal 401K Earnings

[Power Wagon]

Originally posted by Lhotka

Shrimpy where did you get the juicy tidbit of information that Enron called the White House EXPECTING to get help and that no one would listen????



Not true. The White House apparently listened very closely. Close enough to determine it was too politically risky to assist Enron. They knew enough about Enron's $$ problems to distance themselves. Bush claims he didn't correspondence from Enron. Maybe true, but everyone else in his administration knew about the financial problems.



I'd like to know if the White House knew about Enron's financial problems AND the fact that they were misleading their employees? If so. . they had a moral obligation to intervene. At the very least influence Enron to level with their shareholders and employees.

Ahhhh... So the Bush administration is to be damned because you can make up the argument that they listened but thought it was risky... Wow. I am so underwhelmed. I'm really amazed at just how psychic you are. NOT!!!



At the risk of losing my temper... I'm not a child, I'm not brain-dead stupid, so please don't make arguments that only those kind of people might actually fall for. Your argument is the intellectual equivalent of a wife finding her husband in bed naked with some young girl, and he tells her "hey, she was suffering from hypothermia, I was just trying to help" when there wasnn't even a blanket on the bed. Then again, I suppose you might find the above witty or even clever.



It would be in keeping with the pattern so far, come to think of it.

 

[Power Wagon]

Originally posted by Shrimpy





Believe me if it is confirmed that GWB is guilty of anything then lets string him up, but so far there is nada, zip, nothing that can be proven. .



Later... ... ... ... .

Hey, the Bush administration is guilty of having the phone ring and then Lhotka making up the content of the phone call, the attitude of the listener, and then divining the thought processes of the people on the White House side of the line. I mean, if he can dream it up, Bush must be one &^%$ of a bad guy.



* sigh *

 

[illflem]

I've got to wonder what kind of guy GWB is to let Enron fall, after all his mother in law lost $8k in the deal (true). 212 out of the 248 politicians investigating Enron received contributions from them, do we see any conflict of interest here?

 

[Sled Puller]

BYW,

Lhotka,



Bushes energy plan kicks ***, even the UNIONS backed it up. (Unions backing a Republican plan?)



Too bad your hero Daschle shelved it and won't let it come up for a vote.



Why?

Because he knows it would pass and HELP the country! That would not be good for his presidential bid, now would it?

 

[Sled Puller]

illflem,

you know darn well if Bush would have said,



" We need to he lp this company. "



The press and the sharks would have been all over him about saving his Mommys money and helping big business.

 

[Champane Flight]

There isn't

There isn't a thing at all that makes GW look guilty of anything in his life. As there isn't anything wrong with living in the same room in the same dorm where Cocaine was found. He just had a Daddy that had a few bucks and a whole hunk of pull to get him out of it. Any other kid would have been locked up and every other kid in that room was, I believe. He had several buisness dealings that looked shady in his younger years (where all the money disapeared). Not to mention DUIs etc,etc.



I have not seen a modern President that did not have a cloud over his head and a couple of skeletons in the closet! But, please refrain from giving Bush his sainthood yet. He is doing a fine job. I really believe that. I think his economic policy is flawed. (You have to reduce dedt and spending, before you cut taxes. ) And his energy policy does not have a future. ( Everything is too short term. ) I do however back him, he is the Commander in Chief,

and holds himself much better than the last president did.



And to give credit to the economic boom of Clintons presidency to Regan is ludicrist. I have heard this argument before, it does not wash PERIOD. Trickle down economics don't work, not then, not now. History is there to prove it. In my opinion the last great Republican to hold office was Nixon! You saw what happened to him. If you step on toes in Washington, you go down. That is one reason why every great president has been surrounded by controversy and scandal. If the president is not wrapped up in this, I would be very supprized. At least he has the brains not to offer testimony like Clinton.



All politicions are dirty. ALL of them. They did not get where they are today being nice guys... ... . You could take a saint from heaven and put him in Congress and within two weeks he would be taking soft money, hard money, and taking care of a few aids on the side, if you get my drift... .

 

[Lhotka]

Originally posted by Power Wagon





Ahhhh... So the Bush administration is to be damned because you can make up the argument that they listened but thought it was risky... Wow. I am so underwhelmed. I'm really amazed at just how psychic you are. NOT!!!



At the risk of losing my temper... I'm not a child, I'm not brain-dead stupid, so please don't make arguments that only those kind of people might actually fall for. Your argument is the intellectual equivalent of a wife finding her husband in bed naked with some young girl, and he tells her "hey, she was suffering from hypothermia, I was just trying to help" when there wasnn't even a blanket on the bed. Then again, I suppose you might find the above witty or even clever.



It would be in keeping with the pattern so far, come to think of it.

Apparently I struck a nerve.



Of course my response was stupid. The entire topic is. Did you make this conclusion independently, or did you have to consult with your buddies via private e-mail before deciding this? I posted the topic simply as a means of entertainment and to draw attention away from the other crap that was being written in DUMP DASCHLE. Golly... ... ... that back-fired. Now I won't be able to sleep knowing that you guys think I am stupid.



I'll try to make more use of the Smilies so you'll know when I am being facetious. Does TDR have one for that? :-{}

 

[Power Wagon]

Re: There isn't

Originally posted by Champane Flight

There isn't a thing at all that makes GW look guilty of anything in his life. As there isn't anything wrong with living in the same room in the same dorm where Cocaine was found. He just had a Daddy that had a few bucks and a whole hunk of pull to get him out of it. Any other kid would have been locked up and every other kid in that room was, I believe. He had several buisness dealings that looked shady in his younger years (where all the money disapeared). Not to mention DUIs etc,etc.

</b><i>



This is urban legend.



<b></i>



I have not seen a modern President that did not have a cloud over his head and a couple of skeletons in the closet! But, please refrain from giving Bush his sainthood yet. He is doing a fine job. I really believe that. I think his economic policy is flawed. (You have to reduce dedt and spending, before you cut taxes. ) And his energy policy does not have a future. ( Everything is too short term. ) I do however back him, he is the Commander in Chief,

and holds himself much better than the last president did.



</b><i>



I'm not giving anyone sainthood.



<b></i>





And to give credit to the economic boom of Clintons presidency to Regan is ludicrist. I have heard this argument before, it does not wash PERIOD. Trickle down economics don't work, not then, not now. History is there to prove it. In my opinion the last great Republican to hold office was Nixon! You saw what happened to him. If you step on toes in Washington, you go down. That is one reason why every great president has been surrounded by controversy and scandal. If the president is not wrapped up in this, I would be very supprized. At least he has the brains not to offer testimony like Clinton.

</b><i>



"Trickle down economics" is a nonsense phrase made up by Democrat wordsmiths. It means absolutely nothing, as well as the completely nonsensical "theory" they claimed it meant.



There is no such thing as "trickle down economics". There is economics - which behaves by certain known and well understood rules - and there are countless politically correct mantras repeated and spread ad nauseum. The term "trickle down economics" is a "straw man"... It is a lie, defined by certain angry white men, and used to smear others who actually use real economics to make decisions.



Cutting taxes is not "trickle down economics". Basically, it is the only tool there is to encourage employers to hire, businesses to expand, and risk takers to risk. If you do not accomplish those three items, you cannot in any way improve economic conditions.



In order to lower unemployment, you must have businesses create jobs. To improve the welfare of the people, you need busines to be profitable, so it can afford good wages. For there to be opportunity to move up, you need economic expansion, so there is change and flow in the employment markets. These do NOT result from government agencies, government spending, mandates for minimum wage, or extending unemployment benefits. These result from ONE CASE AT A TIME individual managers, employers, companies and investors making calculated decisions on how to proceed into the future. In other words, for 1 million jobs to be created, you don't need a goverment policy of creating 1 million jobs... You need mangers or owners making `1 million decisions to hire more than they had before - and that's 1 million more decisions to hire than the decisions to not hire, lay off, or shut the doors due to be being broke.



Now, you've had a 1 paragraph lesson in economics... And, if you're smart, you'll never use the nonsense term of "trickle down economics", because, as you see, there is no relationship between it and reality.

<b></i>



All politicions are dirty. ALL of them. They did not get where they are today being nice guys... ... . You could take a saint from heaven and put him in Congress and within two weeks he would be taking soft money, hard money, and taking care of a few aids on the side, if you get my drift... .

Taking soft money and taking hard money are not sins. There is absolutely nothing wrong with financing your election campaign. Financing the election process is the single largest componenet of a truly free political speech process.



If I were to run for President, I would have not the faintest chance to do so. I would need at least 300 million dollars. I would have to hire media exposure, arrange appearances, travel the entire country, fund a whole organization of organizers to organize those of the public who would work for me and work on a grass roots basis. I would need some pollsters and researchers, so I can understand who I'm talking to, and what emphasis to make, so that the parts of my philosophy and platform that are most meaningful are the ones I expend my time and energy upon.



If tomorrow, Ross Perot handed me a check for 300 million and said "Go knock 'em dead son", would that be a sin? Or would it be that Ross Perot is excercising his freedom of political speech and freedom of political association to promote what he thinks? If everyone knows he wrote the check, what difference does it make? After all, if I ran for office and won, it would be ME elected, not Ross Perot.



It all boils down to this: There is no problem with any amount of money given to campaigns, so long as the amounts are publicly revealed.



As far as "take care of a few aids on the side", the vast majority of politicians DO NOT engage in such behavior. Not only is it wrong, it is extremely risky... And only those without good judgement and self-control stretch thier luck...

 

[Champane Flight]

Hope

I hope none of your heros on on this list.



http://www.realchange.org/#bushjr

 

[Power Wagon]

Re: Hope

Originally posted by Champane Flight

I hope none of your heros on on this list.



http://www.realchange.org/#bushjr

I hope you're not foolish enough to swallow the nonsense on that site. It mixes fact and pure fantasy in equal parts and dishes it up as a pretend "non partisan", which it is not.

 

[Power Wagon]

Re: Hope

Originally posted by Champane Flight

I hope none of your heros on on this list.



http://www.realchange.org/#bushjr

Tell me, who are your heros?



Let me list some of mine:

King David ( from the Bible)

Martin Luther

Every signer of the Declaration of Independence

George Washington

Abe Lincoln

Thomas Jefferson

Ronald Reagan

Boris Yeltsin

Anwar Sadat - for having the courage to make peace with an enemy.

That unknown man who stood in front of the tanks, stopping them for a while on the way to Tiannenmen square.

The men who stormed Omaha and other beaches on D-day.

My father, who waited in a bunker, expecting to jump into France on D-day.

His uncle George, who DID jump into France on D-day and lived to tell about it in a book.

Lech Walesa

Vaclav Havel

Rosa Parks

The men who gave thier lives rescuing others on Sept 11



These are the people who I count as real heros.



A hero is someone who, while human and frail as everyone else, puts principle and others ahead of himself when crunch time comes. Heros are people who, when all else has fallen apart, stay dedicated to truth. Heros are those who understand what things are larger than they are, and are worth more than themselves.



You diminish the concept of what a hero really is when you suggest that just being a politician can establish hero status in the eyes of an intelligent person.

 

[Sled Puller]

Where can I get a copy of that book? Those are the best kinds, writtrn by guys who were there.

 

[Champane Flight]

You

You were the one backing said poiticions , not me. You asked me for my heros.



My father, (the old Yangze river rat) served all over the Pacific during WW2 and Korea. Spent 35 years in the Navy.



A old Tailgunner, name of Carl, whos memories kept him in the bottle until he was sixty years old, he then dug deep to find sobriety and peace of mind.



A friend named Bill, who lost both legs in Nam. I watched the layers of dispair,anger,determination,and finally courage surface in that man. He is now a sucessful contracter, with a fine family.



Another man by the name of Dan, who saved my life by carrying me twenty clicks through triple canopy jungle.



Jimmy Hoffa, who in his early days was as fierce in his conviction as any Pit Bull.



Crazy Horse!

Chief Joseph!

Tecumseh!

Geronimo!



All the men and women overseas and stateside serving thier country as we babble and bicker on the computer. God bless them all.



There are others, some that just survived a conflict and continued to live without any whinning or requesting handouts.

Couragous people who go to work everyday, scratching out a living. They are the real heros.



And even you PW, who is striving to better himself. Even if you are a little closed minded.



I have many more heros, they range in life from the famous to the unsung. Not enough room on the page for them all.

 

[NETim]

Close minded? Who's close minded?

Hey Champagne Flight,



I think just because Power Wagon doesn't agree with you and you don't agree with him, that doesn't necessarily mean he's "close minded".



It could well be that YOU are the close minded one here. Ever think of that?



Regards,



Tim

 

[Sled Puller]

Interesting concept.

 

[Power Wagon]

Originally posted by MGM

Where can I get a copy of that book? Those are the best kinds, writtrn by guys who were there.

D-Day With the Screaming Eagles



By George E. Koskimaki



Note, the last name is a variant of the spelling of mine. Several family members did this when they emigrated here.



I have never actually read the book. I wanted to, but have never found it in a library. My father owned a copy, in fact, had a hand-typed manuscript of it before it was published, but he would not allow me to read it. I may just buy it someday. When my mother passed away, and we had to go through her things, I never found it. Possibly one of my brothers has it.



Amazon has it listed here:



http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0686227840/qid=1012235642/ref=sr_11_0_1/104-5780751-6922344

 

[BV]

The difference between Capitalism, Communism, & Enronism.



Capitalism: You have two cows. You sell one & buy a bull. Your herd multiplies & the economy grows. You sell them & retire on the income.



Communism: You have two cows. Your neighbors help take care of them & you all share the milk.



Enron-ism: You have two cows. You sell three of them to your publicly listed company, using letters of credit opened by your brother-in-law at the bank, then execute a debt/equity swap with an associated general offer so you get all four cows back, with a tax exemption for five cows. The milk rights of the six cows are transferred via an intermediary to a Cayman Island company secretly owned by the majority shareholder, who sells the rights to all seven cows back to your listed company. The annual report says the company owns eight cows, with an option for one more.



... . then one of your cows gets mad cow disease and your ability to

deliver contracted milk from the other 8 evaporates as your creditors stake claims on the last remaining cow that has been eating and drinking from the same trough the infected cow was drinking from.



Of course the grain feed company that you have been paying to "feed and monitor" all nine cows indicates that nothing was wrong with your feed, but nonetheless he shreds all records of feed sales just as a pre-caution.

 

[LarryB]

Clinton! #ad
What a joke on the American people that guy was. #ad

 

[rrausch]

He was an expensive joke.

He and Hillary were very smart con-artists. I have friends who voted for him because he "seemed so nice". All true con-artists have the ability to make their victims feel special and the Clintons were experts at it. God save us from the next layer of these "Democons" who must be waiting in the wings for 2004 or 2008.



Watch out especially for Gov. Gray Davis. Aka Gov. Lowbeam... Gov. Gray-out Davis.

 

[HEMI®Dart]

a little off topic

Look at all the Enron related products E-Bay has (about 1200)



http://search.ebay.com/search/searc...ult&ht=1&SortProperty=MetaEndSort&query=Enron