Entering a demolition derby for the first time

[FDavid]

Actually my buddy is gonna be driving but it was my idea and he agreed to do it :-laf Ok first thing is first, we have no experience in demo derbys except of course watching them lol. Its gonna be at our local fair next month. So does anyone have any advice on what kind of car to get? Whats a tough old car thats cheap to get? Any and all tips and advice would be very appreciated to give us that extra edge. Also I am gonna spray paint Cummins, TDR etc all over it along with the name of my restaurant. Picture of the build up. . errr tear down to follow in the coming weeks. Thanks!

 

[loncray]

A big one. Seriously - old Caddys, Oldsmobiles, Buicks always seem to do well. Station wagons too, but the rear end can get smashed down around the wheels sometimes. Those big puffy seats are more comfortable too. The things that I've seen kill demo derby cars are: spinning out of their own tires - the rear wheel drive cars are better 'cause they're not steering and pulling at the same time. Spin a front wheel drive car out of one tire and it's dead. Fenders smashed down around the wheels - smaller cars get beat by this a lot. Fire - you can't do anything about that except try to get the engine compartment clean so the accumulated grime doesn't catch fire.



I've never driven in a demo derby (hey, I'm not crazy), but I was on my uncle's pit crew a few years when I was a teenager, and I watch the demo derby every year here in VA.

 

[MLimpert]

Around here the early-mid 80s Ford Crown Vics are popular and they seem to do well. You should be able to pick one up for next to nothing.

 

[DBogo]

crown vics do good, and most of the older big cars like caddys impalas, lincolns all them older big ones, as mentioned about wagons they do good as well the key to a wagon is to keep the back end folded up when it crushs, some front wheel drives can do well also like the taurus wagon and some of the bigger ones, stay away from the smaller cars because there just not that durable

 

[JoshPeters]

OH where to start..... after 9 years of pitting for demos... I got out of it. I drove one year. What a rush! I honestly get more of a rush in the pits.



Get a GOOD sledge hammer (10lbs or bigger) with a GREAT handle. You don't need it breaking.

A torch is not an option. You NEED one.

LEATHER gloves.

Multiple other sized hammers.

LARGE prybars.

I also like to have a full set of tools.

A good floor jack.

JACK STANDS! DO NOT Go under ANY car, let alone a Demo car with a weak frame without using Jack Stands!

A generator and air compressor are nice, but not totally nessissary.

Bring some sort of extra lighting. Around here the consolation and final are well after dark.

2 spare sets of tires. Should you get knocked out first round, go consolation, and then find your self in the final... you'll want good tires for all of them.



We built a "box" with a toggle switch for the coil, a starter button, and a seperate switch for the fuel pump(if needed) and actually... We would go as far on the fords to set up a second starter solonoid and button. Lord knows they NEVER go out... .

That way when you do your first demo... and your Hooked... you can just cut those wires... pull the box, batteries, gas tank and walk away!



Don't worry about the radiator so much. The crowd loves when one pops. When your driving... Getting sprayed with hot coolant sux. I'd recommend draining it and flushing all the coolant out. Use just water. Again getting sprayed by water, you can shake it off. Coolant sticks and continues to burn.



If you get a station waggon, Climb up on top and before the demo starts, along the back sides... right after the last pillar, behind the seats, but above the axle (I wish I had a picture), Put a dent all along the top of the roof going down. Try to do the same on the inside. Take a floor jack and put 10 people in and on it. Get it to just START bending up. You'll be golden. Don't cut the frame. Depending on the rules... you'll be disqualified. really you can do this on any demo car. 4 door sedan, don't worry much about the roof, go along where the hat rack meets the bottom of the back glass.



If they allow Threaded rod for the hood hold downs, spend the extra money. Tighten them down nice and tight. They are stronger than chains.



Use 2 batteries. Put them in with a jumper wire the size of your battery wire, positive to positive, negitive to negitive. Use a Good ground!



Most of all use common sense. If you think it's going to be a problem, eliminate it, fix it. . hide it. If someone knows the weak spot on your car, they will try to take you out by using it. I had a car with a distributor in the front. I pulled the radiator to get a little extra room. I painted it all black so they couldn't see it. It got scratched in the 2nd round, and a driver saw it. Realizing what it was... . you know what he went for next!



The smaller cars aren't bad, but watch your rules. Ours were by wheel base. Make sure you measure. We had a 4 door Celeberty in with the big boys one year. The wheel base put them in that classification.



Having all the power in the world isn't everything in a demo. Remember its the last one running and hitting. They don't say you have to tear the front of the other guys car off. Just hit them.



That's all I can think of right now. Any other questions... ask away!



JP

 

[BILLVO]

As Josh said rules is rules get a set from the people putting it on some are independent derbys Oo. :-laf ,And most anything will go but most are governed by a tight set of rules as to what you can and can't do to a car. I have run derby cars for years but just got tired of it and free or cheap cars are impossible to find anymore. The late 60's to early 70's mopars were the best but have been banned by many derby associations because they are litterally indestructible. the ones that do well now are the early 80's and late 70's chevy caprices they have a solid frame and "box" up nicely. Most people use the front end to do the hitting they are a solid car and are plentiful.

 

[Alphacowboy]

do some guys cheat witht he tires? I mean I see some blow off the rim from a light hit, while there are guys driving around on a round tire with a mashed bent wheel!!! Was wondering if some fill the tires with expanding foam to "cheat"

 

[JoshPeters]

I haven't "cheated" like that with tires... . I have found that the rules only say no bob cat tires. Well you can find Mobile home trailer tires that will fit smaller rims..... at a weight rating that they have... . it stays good even after they are flat.



They cost a bit, but work for a few demos.



JP

 

[FDavid]

There is some awesome advice in this thread. Thanks to all that have contributed. There is a local car auction this coming wednesday that we are going to try and find a car for under 500 bucks. If we dont have any luck there than we are picking up an 85 lincoln towncar we found down the street. this is gonna be fun... :-laf

 

[BILLVO]

do some guys cheat witht he tires? I mean I see some blow off the rim from a light hit, while there are guys driving around on a round tire with a mashed bent wheel!!! Was wondering if some fill the tires with expanding foam to "cheat"

Around here the derby association rules state that the tires have to be a factory rated dot tire for the vehicle and no altering them which means no 10 ply tires on a car or any other tire that would not have been a normal on it. If the judges suspect something funny like going 3 heats and no flats You will get a mechanical inspection to check the tires or anything else on the car. Yes people cheat and that is why you need to get a set of rules. Alot of derbys around here are doing extreme prederby inspections checking for prestressed frames or bodys no torch marks or cuts or strange dents as Josh had stated earlier ,anywhere no suspension mods or welded bumpers and on &on it goes All because of cheaters .

 

[TnLRacing]

FDavid, if you can get a set of rules, and post them here for us to see. All of Josh's suggestions are on the money if the rules allow them. I would also suggest rigging some sort of mechanical shifter through he floor direct to the transmission this way if the frame gets bent and the linkage no longer works you can still shift. I would also loop the transmission lines to avoid breaking a cooler line and pumping all the transmission fluid out of the trans. If the rules allow cut the exhaust as short as possible. Nothing like a pinched off tail pipe to choke you out, and take you out of competition If you can find any thing like friction wedge, use it I once torn the oil pan off of the car and still went another 15 min before the motor blew up. All depends on how good the Tech is. I once ran the car on Methanol, which runs very very cool, and used the heater core as the radiator.



And this is a prep tip... ... if you can take all the windows out the correct way! Resist the fun factor of smashing them with a rock... . cleaning up the pieces SUCKS!



As far as cars go, I have had great luck, with the 70-77 Monte Carlos, any full frame caprice, and the 75-82 olds delta88 (like the one pictured above). The biggest problem these days is that the day of getting a car for free or real cheep are almost no existents. I have a hard time shelling out 500-700 for a demo car

 

[Philip]

To add a few items to do.



Chain down the left side of the engine. A loose/broken engine mount can disconnect the trans linkage and bind throttle linkage. Do not bet on the stock OEM safety mounts holding it down enough. I also hooked up a second throttle in case the OEM failed.



If the car is rear wheel drive and non posi weld up the spider gears so it pulls both rear tires.



Use wire ties on the spark plug wire boots. I have lost many spark plug wires from hard hits.



Use battery tie downs (not rubber cord) no matter if you go one or two batteries. I moved batteries to the passenger floor board. Shorter battery cable this way. If it was a engine noted for not starting hot(i. e. BB Dodge/Olds 455's/Cad 472 and so on). I wired it 24 volt. Twice the amount of starter RPM will start just about any overheated engine.



I did not use any OEM wiring. I had everything I needed electrical mounted in a 30 cal ammo can. Do not use toggle switches eather. Someone can reach in while your at the drivers meeting and snap to levers off. Use rocker switches or mount toggles inside the can and put a lock on the lid.



Take the stock bench seat out and weld a good bucket seat in. If the floor is rusted out. Weld in enough steel to get the seat solid. Mount the seat as low as you can and still be confortable with the driver fit. The reason for this is if you see a car doing a driver side door hit on you. You can drop the seat belt and roll to the passenger side floor board and save your left side. In three years of demo's. I never have seen a car D. Q'd for a driver side hit. Even if the rules stated you would be D. Qd. ( I had a 64 Dodge Polar that had the drivers door shoved in 14". It moved the bucket seat 6").



If you know someone with a 5 point harness. See if you can borrow the lap belt section. Narrow 2" OEM belts will bruise. A 3" or 4" lap belt is a lot better.

 

[JoshPeters]

To add a few items to do.





Take the stock bench seat out and weld a good bucket seat in. If the floor is rusted out. Weld in enough steel to get the seat solid. Mount the seat as low as you can and still be confortable with the driver fit. The reason for this is if you see a car doing a driver side door hit on you. You can drop the seat belt and roll to the passenger side floor board and save your left side. In three years of demo's. I never have seen a car D. Q'd for a driver side hit. Even if the rules stated you would be D. Qd. ( I had a 64 Dodge Polar that had the drivers door shoved in 14". It moved the bucket seat 6").

WOW! If you ran where I have/do much more than a BRUSH with the door will get you a warning! That is probably due to 15 (or so) years ago a guy got put in the hospital due to a driver door hit. (before the imperials were made MOD cars, wide open all the way across the arena... Driver Door hit... . )



I wish I could show you guys the pics I have. The REST of my 67 Benz was just out of whack... the drivers door... perfect.



JP

 

[Philip]

wide open all the way across the arena... Driver Door hit... . )

Thats what happened with me. The judges didn't do a thing. I was right in front of their stand also. But I got even after I got back in the seat and buckled in. I got the clown up against a concrete retainer wall and pounded his car to a pile of scrap. The only thing that was usable was the drivers do.



I broke the front of his engine up, the trans was broken in half. The rear axle was bent, the front suspension had the A arms and ball joints wasted. He had to sell it at the track. It needed to be hauled off with a wrecker that had tow wheels. :-laf



The next year I was lead out of the pits by two dupties. The people in power there didn't like my car mods for the drivers door hitting crowd. :-laf :-laf

 

[FDavid]

Here are the rules (the website is from a different fair but same exact rules).

http://www.clermontcountyfair.org/demoderby.html



If someone could give us some advice on the best way of going about these two rules:



4. A maximum of 3 gallons of gas will be permitted. Original gas tank must be removed and not used in any location, a boat type tank or equivalent thereof may be placed in rear of car. The tank must be flat, no upright 5 gallon cans. Gas line or hose must be secure to nozzle of tank with hose clamp. Tank must be securely fastened to floor of car. A non-flammable fire wall is required over tank. If car is originally factory equipped with electric fuel pump, a kill switch must be in driver's compartment.



Should I try and fine a a boat tank? Or is there an easier solution?



Also



Protection straps must be in place of windshield from top to bottom. Suggest three safety straps equally spaced from top to bottom of windshield.



Can I just cut up the seat seat belts and strap them from the roof to the dash? or is there a more appropiate way?



Once again thanks alot guys

 

[JoshPeters]

I used a boat tank. They work well and don't spill. Just don't forget to open the vent!



I'd get some sheet metal straps from Menards. They have them a couple inches wide and you just screw them into place.



Although that is an interesting rule. I have never seen that one. I don't know what they are thinking there, unless they want thicker metal to help support the roof?



JP

 

[Alphacowboy]

Here, 1/4" plate steel is required on the drivers side door.

 

[JoshPeters]

Here, 1/4" plate steel is required on the drivers side door.

That's another good point. Where I run the only requirements are that the tech inspector can open all the doors. They must be chained shut. Although... . the Drivers door can have reinforcement, but must still open. You can basically reinforce as much as you want from the point where the hinges meet to where the latch connects. If you want to have a 1/2'' plate made up that looks like the door, that's fine. Driver protection. BUT I have seen where people have done alot of work to that door, and have been hit there... and there is not so much as a warning. Although... it did mess up the OTHER car pretty good!



JP