Espar revisited

[ACoyle]

I tried to do my homework. I searched the last 6 months of "Products and Acceessories" for "Espar" I read what was written and attempted to digest. "You all said they are expensive. Maybe, Maybe not. If the truck can vave some things to make it "happier", can't I be warm?



I have never had a vehicle this long without looking for the next onw. I bought my '99 new I see nothing in the new ones that I even remotely want. There is really nothing new. I am not wild about the new styline. "Banta" and I will hopefully be together for a while. He reminds me how much we both dislike cold weather by making me cole till I get out on the higheay.



Espar to the rescue. I boutht it from Edison Truck Repair (732) 985-0331. 33% less thatn opthers I checked. Espar has made them special order items due to reduced demand.



I should have it in 3 - 5 days. I am looking for any advice that I can get on installation. To turn it around, is there interest in me documenting my install. The dealer said that he is willing to sell it. He said the install involves nothing hard. Just nothing that his help wants to do. Fine by me I prefer that I do the "Banta" handling.

 

[JHansen]

Install tips-what I can remember anyways...

Seems to me that someone was writing up an online install guide to make up for the shortcomings in the Espar manual-hopefully they'll jump in here and add their comments. Here's what I can remember though:



It's pretty much a 2 man job in places-dropping the fuel tank and reinstalling it comes to mind. I'm sure 1 guy probably can do it-but 2 makes it quite a bit easier. Also installing the mounting bracket to the frame is a fun job-2 makes it tolerable although still not a lot of fun... .



The instructions are not the greatest-translated out of German and some things were lost in the translation .



Not sure on your '99-on my 2001 I had to cut a new hole in the fuel sending unit for the Espar pickup. Seems to me that you have a grommet existing there already. On my 2001 Quad Cab LWB the fuel line was almost too short-I got it installed but it's stretched like a guitar string. It does function though-and I suppose with it being stretched taut like that it can't get any slack to get hooked by rocks etc... .



It does work slick though-I like mine a lot.



Jason

 

[JR2]

I believe one of the local chapters has a tape available of a install, well I know they do because I know someone who has a copy. Hopefully someone will stop by and let you know.



As far as it being a pain to install that is what I had heard too. The guy I know who just bought one got it from the local distributor and this guy said that Espar is not making one for the dodges any more, but they still make the same heater. So the local distributor puts together a kit for install. Has all the hoses and stuff, and he knows which year takes what setup. We will see if it really works.



I personally can not justify $1400 - 2500 for a warm truck. I have been considering a Webasto heater which is the same type setup, just cheaper. Suspoed to be around $700 total.



Good luck.

 

[ACoyle]

Espar still make the kit. Part number CA 1283 76. The part number on their website is CA 1917 31. The part number change is to make it a special order item.



The cost ws well below those numbers. The tape would be a help, if anyne has it or knows where I could get it.



AC

 

[Happy Camper]

When I installed one on the 97 I used the instructions found on their wed site and found it to be correct. I since have removed it and it is in a box waiting for me to get into the mood to install it onto the 2001. I had to order a few parts to have it fit the 2001. Nothing difficult to install except it fits into TIGHT places for the mounting bracket and the starter removal wasn't bad just something I dont like to do. Also on the 97 the hoses interfered with the throtle linkage.

 

[Wheaties]

I installed mine a few months ago. It wasn't fun, mostly because it goes above the frame between the steering shaft and the fuel filter; lie on top of the engine and reach all the way down, lie underneath the truck and reach all the way up... .



The kit was complete, you add the tools. And the instructions were right on. Does Webasto make a complete wire harness for the Dodge?



I think it was well worth the couple hundred more I paid over the Webasto.



Matt





BTW, the part number changes with the year of the truck, different kit for 12V and such.

 

[JHansen]

I never pulled the starter for my install-maybe that was part of the "evil factor". But it is doable without starter removal for sure!



JR2, I couldn't justify it for a warm cab either. And to be realistic the cab doesn't get as warm as the truck will make it-it will clear the windshield though. I bought it because I plan to run this truck until the fenders fall off-anything I can do to prolong the life of the engine is a bonus in my book! Ideally I'd have a huge heated shop that the old girl could spend its evenings in-maybe when I win the lottery ... this is the next best thing. Between it and the synthetic engine oil, I've pretty much done what I can feasibly due to keep start-up wear to a minimum IMO.



But I did spring for the keychain remote kit-again only for longevity you understand



Jason

 

[JohnE]

I completely documented my ESPAR install with around 200 digital photos. I changed some things from the installation manual and would do a couple things different if starting over. I have not finished the written part of the pages for posting on my webspace at <a href=http://www.nwbombers.com target=_blank>NWBombers</a>

I have an ESPAR failure that is taking my free time. I have been in constant email communication with the trouble shooting whiz at ESPAR to get the problem resolved. Appears I have to pull the unit and return it to my point of purchase.



The fuel tank is something I would approach different if starting over. Either plan to completely drop the tank or lift the bed. I'm lucky that my damage was fixable. Replacing the POS Dodge vinyl connections is tops on my things to fix while you are there.



I had to work to get the frame mounting bracket away from the steering shaft. My second time would be to add another mounting bolt higher on the frame rail. It should help pull the unit away from the steering shaft.



I have a 12 valve. I designed a new hose routing from the engine block to the ESPAR unit. It only required a single coupler in addition to the parts included in the ESPAR kit.



I spent an entire day working on the wire harness routing under the hood area. I have made a very clean install that was NOT very well described in the manual.



After I get the ESPAR functioning, I plan to tie it into my alram system for remote function.



Sounds as though I need to get moving on my journal.



If you have any questions in the meantime, drop me an <a href=mailto:4ericksons2@home.com>email</a> and I'll try to help.



-John

 

[Wheaties]

Originally posted by JohnE





I had to work to get the frame mounting bracket away from the steering shaft. My second time would be to add another mounting bolt higher on the frame rail. It should help pull the unit away from the steering shaft.



-John [/B]

I had the same problem with the frame mounting bracket. Upon closer inspection of the instructions, I discovered that only half of it fits behind the brake line harness, the other half in front. Remounting the bracket correctly moved the Espar bracket 3/4 to 1" away from the steering shaft. It was a real trick to get it in there.



I suspect it would be enormously easier to install if the wheel well were taken out. Is there a way to remove the plastic rivets without distroying them?



Matt

 

[Happy Camper]

I ended up destroying the plastic rivits. NAPA supplied me with some that has a screw down the center that expands and holds like a molley screw. You have to feel good about yourself to start the installation as it takes some plastic man arms and baby fingers. IMO

 

[MCJ]

I ordered the Hydronic D4 a year ago and set about installing it about a month ago.



One of the members (name escapes me for the moment) did document the whole thing on tape (I think his address and ordering instructions for the tape where mentioned in one of the TDR issues. Just out to help fellow members this member will ship you a copy for the cost of the tape plus shipping!)



Here's what I've found during my, as yet unfinished, installation:



1) Even though you probably all know this…be sure to lay out the entire installation inside on the floor a couple of times until you are absolutely sure how you will set about things. Not because it's a technically challenging installation, but rather, because there are many different sources of information and instruction and it is very easy to get confused about what applies to your particular install. I received "supplemental" instructions for the 2001 Ram that I didn't notice for a while that require you tap the coolant hoses in a completely different fashion than the "main" instructions.



2) The Espar mounting bracket did not mount to the Ram frame the way the instructions said it should. I had to move a line and use different holes.

I did coat the entire surface of the bracket, the part that comes into contact with the truck frame, with a layer of silicone to isolate, as much as possible, the unit from engine vibrations. In hindsight, I would should have used an inner tube!



3) I also needed to grind a notch out of the bracket so it cleared a welded spot on the frame and mounted flush. Be sure there isn't any contact between the bracket and the drive shaft…eyeballing it is fine, but I recommend sliding something in between to make sure you have good clearance. I discovered after I drove for about a week, with just the bracket mounted, that it rubbed slightly.



4) I don't like tapping into wires with those scotchlock connectors. Unfortunately, if you order the remote, you will be forced to do this. There is a 12-pin connector that interfaces with the 7-day timer. The remote has four wires that need to connect to the 12-pin connector. I decided to remove the pins and connect the remote wires to the pins and then reinsert them. If you wish to do it this way, you will need a pin removal tool and some extra pins. Since this is not supplied with the other parts, you will need the following, the part number is p/n 206 00 204 (for the 1. 6mm removal tool) and p/n 206 00205 (for the 2. 8mm removal tool). No one I have talked too seems to know which one I need, or how to get these parts. My electrical knowledge is limited, so I took the thing into Radio Shack first... no one had any idea.

Espar was quick to supply me with the part numbers, but you need to contact a distributor to order the parts. I have been in touch with three distributors over the last two weeks…still haven't been able to order what I need yet.

Also, the wiring schematic, on page 12 of the instructions, was the only place I found that shows you what to do. Here, the directions are lacking. Why Espar didn't make the remote a part of the timer connection I will never understand.



5) If you have a 2001 truck, you will have to take the gas tank all the way off (or lift the bed). On this model, you need to take the sending unit off and "drill" the top to accept the Espar pick-up.

IMPORTANT - do not mess with the rollover valve. Once this valve is unseated…it will not go back in. You will be forced to drive a screw through it to hold it in place or replace the entire sending unit approx. $375. 00. There was a factory recall for the sending unit for 2000 or 1999 trucks…I'm not sure which, so you might want to check before you get started.

With my truck I noticed that the rollover valve wasn't properly seated to begin with. I took the sending unit in to my Dodge shop, they gave me a new rollover valve... didn't seat right. Since they will not warranty anything you remove from the truck yourself…I had to halt my installation, put everything back together and drive the truck to the dealership.

You would think that they would be happy to just give me the part and save the labor charge???





I started this installation on the 25th of November. Currently, the unit is mounted on the bracket, none of the cab wiring is completed and the heater is capped off. I ran the exhaust and air pipes. My kit was missing one of the reducers needed to tap into the OE coolant lines and I am having the same problem ordering this part as I am ordering the pin removal tools.



Biggest problem…



It's getting cold in CT!!!



Marc

 

[Wheaties]

Marc,



Did you get one reducer, and one straight through too? That was about the only thing I found wrong in my kit! Go down to an auto supplier and they'll sell you one for next to nothing.



I'd be interested in seeing how your bracket mount meets the frame. I'll admit it was a bear to get in, but it did fit, and there was no grinding. First time around, I had it rubbing against the steering shaft as well--I had it in wrong.



Also, I bypassed drilling a hole in the sending unit, but the jury is still out on whether this was the best way to go. There's used to be a plug you could remove and slip the brass fuel line/cap into, but Dodge has removed it. There is still a 3/8" nipple with a line going to the bottom of the tank. I think Espar doesn't like this for fear that someone will leave the heater running and use the last of their fuel, The Espar line doesn't go all the way down. Anyway, I used a reducer 3/8"->1/8" to mate up the fuel line with the nipple. Simple install and didn't really have to drop anything.



I have to give credit to all the NETDP folks that helped on one of our recent 'Turkey Fries'--they were a huge help. Initially we did drop the tank and tried a compression fitting on that same nipple, but I think it leaked air into the line so I abandoned it in favor of the reduction.



Where are you located in CT? Maybe I could lend a hand?



Matt

 

[Alaskaskiff]

Marc,



I am over in Newport, Rhode Island and went through the pain with the Espar a year ago. It is worth it! Just added the remote 2 days ago. PM me if you need help with this project.

 

[JohnE]

Dodge requires ESPAR to supply a new fuel pickup unit for the tank. This is according to the email reply I received on my inquiry. It has something to do with crash tests.

You didn't hear this from me, but an easier approach it to use the existing spare fuel pickup on the tank and skip putting in the dual pickup supplied by ESPAR, same as <b>mwheaton</b>.



I'm planning to use a spare channel on my alarm systems to trigger the ESPAR. If you plug into pin 7 of the remote timer you can trigger the on/off feature with a 12 volt pulse. I believe the connector is by AMP. I haven't gone shoping for spare contacts yet.



Matt;

I got the bracket mounted per the instructions. I think tolerances on welding the bracket allow it to sway a bit. A bolt higher on the frame rail would help push it away fom the steering shaft AND reduce a viration potential.



The ESPAR is coming out. It appears the coolant circulating pump is not circulating. Lucky me!



-John

 

[Wheaties]

JohnE,



I'm still not certain this is the best way to go, using the existing nipple on the sending unit, that is. I would endorse it wholeheartedly, but I keep getting start failures due to air in the line. If you can verify that you aren't having a problem with air, then I can look elsewhere for my air leak. At the moment, I'm wondering if I'm going to have to drop the tank again and do the Espar pickup just to get some help with this.



My first pass on the mounting bracket was to try to put the whole thing behind the brake line harness, between the frame and the harness completely. But if you look at the install diagram more closely, only half the harness fits outside the mounting bracket. There's a jog in the harness that passes through a slot in the bracket. Half the bracket is under the harness and half is over.



My first install had it rubbing up against the steering column, my second and more correct install is away from the column and sufficiently rigid. I can see how easy it is to get this wrong, having done it myself. I wish I could look at yours and see what you've done. From here I can't tell if you've made the same mistake I did, or if there's a different problem.



Sorry to hear you have a coolant pump problem. I' m seriously loving mine when it works



Matt

 

[Alaskaskiff]

We may be talking apples and oranges, on the pickup tube issue, since my truck is 96 and yours are newer. I replaced mine with little difficulty. Didn't even take the tank out of truck. Just dropped it down (without stressing the cheesy dodge fuel lines) and pulled the aux fitting and put the new one in. Probably took 10 minutes. I pulled the rubber donut and assembled on the new pickup tube before putitng it back in. Used a little diesel to make it more slippery.

 

[Wheaties]

araiha,



Yes you're right about yours being different. The new models have done away with the aux fitting that you are talking about all together. There's an addenda to the Espar instructions telling us to drill a 1-9/16" hole where the aux fitting used to be, then the rest of the tank install is the same. This means dropping the tank out completely so you can remove the sending unit and drill.



Fortunately, there's also a 3/8" nipple on the sending unit that you can put a short piece of hose on, followed by a reducer, followed by the 1/4" hose that fits over the white plastic fuel line. The other side of the nipple has an in-tank line that goes to the bottom, so it should do the job. This is still completely separate from the existing fuel lines (other than the fact that it passes through the same sending unit) so it isn't a tap into the engine's fuel line.



Matt

 

[MCJ]

Matt - With all the recent posts about the bracket…I hope I didn't force the thing to do what I thought it was supposed to do and not what it was designed to do. I'll have to look at it more closely this weekend.



I like the idea of using the 3/8" nipple instead of drilling the sending unit. Any idea what that nipple was originally intended for. It's to bad Dodge decided to scrap the old sending unit design with the hole already tapped for an aux. line.



I live in New Canaan…pretty close to where RT 7 meets with the Merrit Parkway. I get up to Danbury quite a bit (bought the truck at Danbury Dodge). I'd love to stop in and check out what you did.



Andy, Matt, thanks for you offers of help. As soon as I get back to my installation, you might regret extending a helping hand!!



I got the following response from Espar today regarding the parts and part numbers I need.



"The large terminal removal tool, 2. 8mm, p/n 206 00 205, is required for the

7-day timer. The terminals are p/n 206 00 180.

The part number for the 20-18mm reducer is 20 1645 89 00 06.

Unfortunately, most dealers do not carry small miscellaneous parts in their inventory. But, most will arrange for a direct ship from our main warehouse.

The fuse cover is p/n 204 31 005. "



If anybody is interested.



Matt - I think I'll run down to the local auto parts store for the reducer…per your advice!



-Marc

 

[JohnE]

Matthew;



I got the plate split between over and under the brake lines. Any variation in fabing the mounting plate would have caused my troubles, such as welds or bends.



Here's a photo of the mounting plate and brake lines.



-John

 

[JohnE]

MCJ;



Here's the top of my 97 tank. The Dodge installed auxillary pickup of the rubber cap front most in the photo.



-John