Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) ETH BOMBing Vs ETC BOMBing

[Wiredawg]

Fellow Rammers:



ETCs BOMB better than ETHs! I can speak from experience on this as I had a 2000 2500 ETC/DEE that I transplanted everything over to my new 2002 3500 ETH/DEE. List of transplanted are below in my signature excpet I tranplanted 275 injectors.



Numbers are from the same dyno, approx same outside temp one year apart:



2500 #s

314. 3 HP

774. 6 TQ



3500 #

292. 2 HP

691. ? TQ



I'm not unhappy with the numbers, but I used to post when I had the ETC I would rather pay less for that engine and put the difference into BOMBing. All the ETHers would chime in and "set me straight. "



Well, being an ETH owner now gives me certain bragging (and complaining) rights. ETCs BOMB (overall) better than ETHs.



I'm ready for further discussion if fellow ETH owners want to chime in.



Let the New Year Begin.



Wiredawg

 

[klenger]

Yea, but the 6 speed sure is sweet.

 

[lmills]

Correct me if I am wrong, but can't the 6 speed be gotten with the ETC also?

 

[Jeff Knight]

Some of the first 6 sp came in the ETC. Now you have to get the HO to get the 6sp. Jeff

 

[VicR]

I'm pretty sure the 99's and 00's 6 speeds were ETC's. But because the transmission came out late in the 99 production year and 00 was a shortened production year, I imagine there are not a whole lot of 6 spd/ ETC's out there. I am pretty sure the 01 and later 6 speeds were ETH.



-Vic

 

[Bigsaint]

The ETH will respond much better with large injectors and a low level box, such as the Edge EZ, rather than a high end box and small injectors. Back when I was running the Bully Dog step 3's, I was making 366 RWHP with only the ez box ( HX40 and K+N filter). I have not re-dynoed, but I know that the step 5's and the ez are more than enough, without taxing the VP44. My PM3 is for play only, no need for it as a daily driver.



Scott W.

 

[Ted Constantine]

Is it just me or do those HP numbers seem low??



My truck has not been on a dyno as set up but I did run it a year ago with 275s and EZ and got 305 rwhp.



You should get alot more than you did with dd2s and pm3



There was a huge power increase(seat-o-pants meter) from that dyno run for me to running DDs and comp.



I would guess you loose a little from the weight of the training wheels and I did not note where you are from and what your altitude is but it seem a little fishy



Ted

 

[Ted Constantine]

Is it just me or do those HP numbers seem low??



My truck has not been on a dyno as set up but I did run it a year ago with 275s and EZ and got 305 rwhp.



You should get alot more than you did with dd2s and pm3



There was a huge power increase(seat-o-pants meter) from that dyno run for me to running DDs and comp.



I would guess you loos a little from the weight of the training wheels and I did no note where you are from and what you altitude is but it seem a little fishy



Ted

 

[Wiredawg]

Both Trucks had 275s

Ted:



I had 275s in both trucks (exactly the same components) at the time I dynoed. I actually won the DD2s the night I dynoed my 3500. Feels stronger with the DD2s but I havent dynoed them yet.



The HP numbers were pretty close, but I was a little surprised to see the big drop in torque. Still, 691 TQ ain't bad when the stock HOs seem to deliver around 470 at the rear wheels.



I dont; know if this had any bearing, but my 2500 had around 40,000 miles on it and my 3500 had around 3,000 miles on it.



I'll be curious to see what the next dyno run indicates.



Wiredawg

 

[Pit Bull]

Your shaft is bigger with the 01 and later 6 speeds. I've been told that it is better to have a bigger shaft :-laf

 

[Ted Constantine]

Oh I miss-understood the 275 transplant. I thought you were saying that you had 275s in the 2500 and dd2s in the 3500. It would be very interesting to see a dyno run right now and after another 15k to see how you breaking effects the performance of the engine. I would think you should see a noticable change (not huge but noticable) in the number after the engine starts to loosen up a little.



I don't know if the extra line loss from the 3500, bigger transmission, etc is what you are seeing or not but the difference in the hp numbers might be break in time.



Given those number and miles and other variables you are probably on par for the two engines. Don't forget that you do not get as much performance out of a box on a ETH as an ETC but you should get better results out of the injectors.

Ted



PS got to love double posts. I edited the spelling on the first and it created a second post

 

[csevers]

How rare are 99 6spds

I have a 99 6 spd just curious how rare they are?





Craig

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I'm sorta surprised at the lower power levels with both a box AND injectors - ANY upgrade injectors...



My '02 produced nearly the same with the Comp alone:



285 HP

656 TQ



But cheer up - if nothing else, at least yer story made ME feel better!

 

[Wiredawg]

Gary:



That's what we're here for: to cheer each other up.



My 3500, with almost 13K on it now, is feeling pretty good. My beast weighs 9,600 lbs as I drive it everyday. It is scarey fast, and although I've only done it once, did smoke the rear tires. With 4,300 lbs on the rear end, it wasn't caused by being light in the rear.



Wiredawg

 

[One Old Dog]

I just got through dynoing my 3500 in December. I got 305. 2 and 651. 4 torque with a va box boost module and dd2's and pusher pump. I have a friend that has about the same as i and he got 315. with 707 torque. and another that has the eth and he got 299 with just the edge comp box and 4" exhaust. All on the same dyno.

 

[WAYNE]

I own a 99 (ETC) and have done several dyno tests at different power levels , compared to other (ETH) trucks in the shop with similar upgrades the ETC responds with higher HP numbers.

When the truck had the 275 RV injectors & Edge comp, (with fuel /transmission upgrades) the truck made 401 HP & 900 ft/lbs.

Then I stepped up with the DD stage 3 injector , that got the truck to 455 HP & 990 ft/lbs. These numbers were all repeated several times on the dynojet.

 

[CFAR]

I think the DDII's will get you up around 325 to 350.

 

[Bigsaint]

A trip down memory lane

Back when I first bought my truck, in the fall of 2000, the ETH was still pretty much the new kid on the block regarding HP mods. Mark Chapple (sp) and the guys from Edge used to both participate on this forum and they had great difficulty getting the ETH much over 300 + RWHP with just a fueling box. I remember Mark stating that the TST PM3 box got the ETH up to 300 RWHP, the addition of 275 injectors made very little difference on the ETH, maybe a few ponies. The guys at Edge had the same experience with the then new 3 light box, which was transformed into the comp. model. Even with a "hot" number 3 setting on the old Edge box, they didn't see much more than 300 RWHP from a ETH. Back then, the only other choices were to stick with the box and stock injectors or try DD's or BD's, stage 1-3 injectors. The 3's were giving about 350-375 RWHP with a box on the ETH at the time.



Diesel Dynamics up the HP by developing their "supermental" injectors and then Bully Dog came out with the step 4 and step 5 injectors. Actually, I think Bully Dog had the step 4's out around the same time as DD's supermentals. Both types of injectors now pushed the ETH beyond 400+ RWHP.



Bottom line is that you need large injectors to make really big HP in the ETH. That being said, large injectors increase concerns about wash down at idle and the need for a larger turbo to keep the egt's down. If you are happy with your pulling power with what ya got, leave it alone and don't worry about dyno numbers. If you want more, BOMB wisely and upgrade each component as need be, i. e. , turbo, exhaust, air filter and fuel system. Not to even mention the drivetrain. I plan on dropping down to step 2 injectors as soon as we put the deposit on the 5th wheel. For now, riding around empty and towing only ever so often, the EZ and the step 5s are more than enough to keep me .



Scott W.

 

[Wiredawg]

I'm Done BOMBing

Big Saint:



Thanks for the ETH history. I'm really happy with where I am. I pull a 16K lb 5th wheel and my configuration works great with that.



I notice more difference betwwen the 4. 10s on my new truck and the 3. 54s on the old truck.



The last accessory is on order right now: combo tool box/60 gal aux fuel tank. That'll be it.



Thanks, Wiredawg

 

[WadePatton]

I got the good 'un.

Dunno how many of the 119,000 Y2K's are 6-speed, but I GOT MINE! Happy accident. I didn't know about the finer details of ETC vs. ETH when I got it, but was sure pleased when I found them out.



Yeah, my shaft is smaller, but I spin it real fast! Mebbe I won't twist it off.



Don't have dyno numbers yet, but will be sure to spread them around when they become available.



And yes I would 'suffer' with the ETH to get the 6-speed. I just don't drive automatics.