ETH Driveline Shudder

[GTop]

Ok here's the problem nobody can figure out. My truck had 7,000 miles on it and was shuddering really bad. The carrier bearing was toasted. Dealer replaced the carrier bearing and the shudder dissapeared for a few hundred miles. So i took it back in and this time they replaced the entire driveshaft including the carrier bearing. The shudder is still there. I can only notice the shudder in the bottom of first and second gear. While I was at the dealership a mechanic and I took a test drive in a brand new ETH and we both noticed a slight shudder. Is anyone else experiencing this? It doesnt matter if i'm empty or I have my 5'ver hooked up, the shudder is the same. The next step is for me to meet with a factory rep and have him take a look when i have time to schedule it. Even though i'm frustrated with this shudder i am very pleased overall with the truck and am extremely pleased with the dealership. They're really trying.

 

[KWIKKURT]

I have always felt a little shudder in second thru the shifter. Let me know what you find!

 

[C1B1DIESEL]

You might have them check the drive line, axle, and transmission angles, one of them could be out of spec, and when you applie enough torgue the differential is possibly rotating and putting it way out of spec. This will take out ujoints, carrier brg, and poss. , damage parts if the trans.

Have seen this happen on Big Rigs, class 8

Just my . 02 but would check in to it.

 

[GTop]

Thanks for the replies. My dealer wants me to hook up my 5ver and bring the truck in to have the mechanic and factory rep check driveline angle and a few other things. Greg

 

[Cobra]

Drive train shudder

I noticed a slight shudder in second gear since I bought the truck. I thought it was the cluch but it didn't make sense that it was only in second gear. I finally took it to the dealer and the mechanic drove it and said it was the drive shaft but not to worry about it. After reading these threads I guess I should worry. Mine is a 2500 with the ETC. Guess that doesn't matter though, the problem is not engine related but truck related. Should I go back to the dealer to have parts replaced?

 

[Cobra]

In my previous thread I forgot to mention that my truck now has 6,000 miles on the clock. Also, I installed air bags on the rear and the mechanic said the bnags may have changed the angle of the truck. I know that they didn't because I followed the instructions carefully and made measurements before installation and afterward. The truck is the same distance from the center of the axle to the bottom of the fender.

 

[rrexcavate]

I have the same problem with my 2001 6speed Dually. Since the day I drove it off the lot I have felt a vibration in 2nd gear. When towing a load the vibration is in first and 2nd. I took it to the Dealership in Joplin, MO and they recommended a shim kit be installed. They ordered a shim kit and installed last week. The shims are put on where the rear end attaches to the leaf springs.

They change the pitch of the angle from rear end to driveline. I test drove the truck afterwards and the vibration is still there but not as bad. I took the truck back today and the dealership has scheduled me in for tomorrow afternoon. They said they would run more tests to try and figure out what the problem is.

 

[Bad340fish]

Same Problem here

I have the same vibration in my 99 2500 but its only when loaded with a heavy trailer. What I think is that its the overloads, under somewhat heavy acceleration with the rear end loaded down the over load spring in the front will start to touch the stops and its transfering some vibrations to the truck. Your axle wrap is gonna be the worst in first and second also. And 3. 54 gears will make the axle wrap even more. What gears are you guys running?? I have the 3. 54 rear end in mine. Just a thought, I posted this a few times awhile back but go hardly any replys at all.

 

[rrexcavate]

I am running 3. 54 gears.

 

[Cobra]

I too am running 3. 54 rears with limited slip diff

 

[Jumbo Jet]

Driveline shudder has been a real problem for the Duramax owners too.



GM has been replacing two piece drive shafts with one piece.



Friend of mine with a Duramax had the shudder problem and the dealer actually replaced the Allison first time around. He told them the truck was still doing the same thing and now they are replacing the two piece drive shaft.

 

[MidwestMotorman]

A good thing to check is the rear tire pressures. Mine will vibrate if I am more than 2 psi different. The sun shining on one side of the truck will increase my Goodyear E range tires 2 psi and cause a vibration until the pressures equalize. Sounds funny, but the limited slip acts that way. I have the Dana 80 rear.

I also had an out-of-round rim on my truck right from the factory. The tire weights would balance the tires vibration, but the tire would still wiggle around and you would feel the back shake a little. Maybe we all should be paid for working as DC's product testing team?

 

[rrexcavate]

update

Dropped my '01 Dually off at the Dodge Dealer again today. I printed this entire thread off and gave it to the Service guy to read. They will look at my truck again tonight and tomorrow. They are suppose to call me tomorrow with an update.



ps. Was fortunate to get a rental free of charge from the dealer, but unfortunate it was a Corolla. Not sure how a shovel, transit, grade stick, and pvc pipe are suppose to fit in this thing.

*************I MISS MY CUMMINS!!!*******************

 

[MidwestMotorman]

Well, the answer to that question is a no-brainer. Just put it on the trailer with the skid-steer when you tow it behind the Corolla!

Second though, maybe using the skid for the pull vehicle would work better.

 

[rrexcavate]

update

Dealer called and said they believe the shudder is from a two piece drive line. They had Factory Techs on the phone but no answer. They shimmed between the two piece driveline to stop some of the vibration but they said they think the problem is still there. They do not make a solid driveline for a long bed they said.

So, they said it is a wait and see if and when the Techs issue a TSB on it.



Has anyone had any luck on their end?



Going to pick up the truck will let you know how it drives.

 

[rrexcavate]

update

Picked up the truck and without a load I noticed NO vibration. Hooked up 12,000lbs and pulled it and noticed just a twinge of a vibration in 2nd gear but if you didnt know the truck had a vibration before hand then you would never notice it now.



Today, believe it or not... I am feeling a vibration in 3rd gear when you get on it and 1st and 2nd are fine (all without a load on).



This weekend we will haul the backhoe and put it to a true test.

Will update you.



As for what exactly was done by the Dealership this is what they explained to me. The driveline/tailshaft is 2 piece. There was slack between the two pieces in what is called the driveshaft center support which allowed for vibration. So they decided to shim around the bearing that is in the driveshaft center support.

I will attach a pic of what they did. You will see some bolts shimmed around the bearing that was their idea to help hold this piece more secure. This pic is looking up the driveline towards the front of the truck.

 

[rrexcavate]

shimming the rear end

Also, I am attaching a pic of the first visit to Dodge where they shimmed the rear end (underneath the leaf springs in order to change the pitch or angle of the rear end to the driveline. It helped when they did this but not as much as what the shim they put in the driveline center support

 

[MidwestMotorman]

Interesting how they did that... but if there was vibration, then it has to be caused by something in the drivetrain. Shimming the rubber ring to clamp it tighter helped, (only because it took the slop out of the system) but what happens when it wears further? Your vibration will be back, and the truck will probably be out of warranty. The vibration will cost you ujoints, pinion seals, yoke seals, carrier bearing, and pounding yoke nuts and overdrive nuts loose. The previous posts here and elsewhere attest to this fact.

The two piece rear shaft is balanced as one assembly. Special care must be taken during dissassembly. I make this point because your driveshaft should be dropped, and the ujoints moved through their range of travel to see if either one is binding or has any kind of drag. Any tightness will cause a vibration, create heat, and destroy the ujoint.

I know that the six speed is longer than the five speed. So a shorter rear shaft must be used. The driveline angle will have to be different to make up for that. Hopefully the DC engineers have compensated for this by shimming the rear, lowering the tailshaft, or raising the engine. If not, then you get the vibration. The carrier bearing must also be at a different angle than the five speed carrier bearing. This topic will obviously continue for some time.

Anyhow, I hope I am not rambling on, but I guess my everyday experiences believe me that the dealership should look further into your vibration problem. If not, then everyone who has a vibration will end up wilth bolts jammed into the carrier bearing instead of a proper fix.

 

[mbrolin]

The only time I feel any vibration in 2nd is with the 5er hooked up. Naturally the more throttle the more vibration. I take this as a characteristic of the truck and Im not concerned about it. All other gears are smooth. GCVW is about 19k lbs. I just take it easy until the speed of the truck picks up.

 

[rrexcavate]

driveline shudder is GONE

I thought I would update you all. My driveline shudder is gone. I have been pulling loads steady this last week and there are no signs of the 2nd gear shudder.



I agree the fix seems like a bandaid but I will wait and see if DC ever issues a TSB on it and then I will follow up with them. This will be my last post on this Subject. Good Luck to everyone else with the 2nd gear shudder hope I have helped you out.