EU1000i or EU2000i generator to run block heater in winter ?

[tdinut]

Thanks, I read in other posts the block heater is rated at 750 watts. I figure I might as well add a Wolverine 250 or 500 watt oil pan heater. Going with a Honda EU2000i or maybe even the Yamaha EF2400iS would give me a little more headroom and possibly more run time. I would like to get as many 2-3 hour sessions as possible on one tankful. I'm still researching them.



Joe

 

[klenger]

What does all this mean? The block heater is probably rated at around 750 watts or so. Since it's just a resistive load there's no starting current to worry about. A 1000 watt generator such as the EU1000i, should handle it just fine.

Even though a heating element is a purely resistive load, like a light bulb, they do draw more current when first started. As the load heats up, the resistance drops. This is one of the reasons that you can't rely on a simple ohm meter check of resistance to tell the real operating current. The delta is not near as high a an inductive motor though. I suspect that a 1000 watt generator is still big enough, but a word of caution that it might not handle it at startup. I'm sure someone here has an EU2000 that could test it with their truck.

 

[juicedcummins]

It is no fun starting a generator in the temps mentioned.

 

[DwayneKelch]

PVasilauskis,



You're correct in the way you arrived at the current draw... E=IxR (120=Ix4ohms) or I=120/4... I=30. Now, use P=IxE and you'll get the wattage of the heating element... P=30x120... P=3600. Simple algebra.



klenger,



If what you stated is true, then the current in the circuit should decrease (if current decreases, wattage decreases). Therefore, if the generator (power source) is sized for the wattage rating of the load (device), then tdinut should have no problems meeting the demand of the block heater element.



tdinut,



I have the Honda EU2000i generator and am really happy with it. So happy that I'm going to buy another one and parallel them together to meet the power requirements of my travel trailer when dry camping. You'll find numerous uses for a portable generator versus something permanently mounted to your truck. Besides, as stated, the 3rd gen HPCR diesel starts in colder weather than the previous model/years. Of course, I have yet to experience anything less than 26*F, so I have no first-hand experience. Happy hunting.





Dwayne

 

[klenger]

klenger,



If what you stated is true, then the current in the circuit should decrease (if current decreases, wattage decreases). Therefore, if the generator (power source) is sized for the wattage rating of the load (device), then tdinut should have no problems meeting the demand of the block heater element.

Dwayne

Correct, as long as the generator has enough power to handle the initial surge.

 

[DwayneKelch]

Klenger,



I have a clamp-on ammeter and will have to perform a test. When completed, I'll post the results.



Dwayne

 

[Duluth Diesel]

It is no fun starting a generator in the temps mentioned.

Exactly right. I tried this once at -20 below. I could not pull the generator over fast enough to get it started. I have a 2700 watt Honda (not the quiet kind). If you can actually get the thing started when the engine/genset is that cold, then you'd be off to the races. My little sister and her husband live up in the northwoods of Minnesota. They intentionally have no phone, no commercial power. Solar panels and batteries, and a backup generator. In the cold up there, they say that electric start IS A MUST to get that thing going. They rely on their generator more than anyone I know, especially at -45 below. Get the eu3000.



-Chuck

 

[starkmr]

Apparently my memory on Ohm's law isn't what it should be!!! You guys are correct in your statements, sorry if I misled.



I've had the pleasure of trying to start a Coleman 5kw generator in the cold here in AK. This machine had the habit of icing up the intake even in the summer. I had to pre-heat the carb and intake manifold to get it to fire. This became such a pain in the neck that I bought the EU3000 and haven't looked back since.

 

[tdinut]

Hi,



I appreciate the lively debate and information. My winter temps. can get in the single digits. 5-10 degrees fahrenheit is pretty common. Dwayne, thanks for the input on the EU2000i. I am sure it will handle what I want and could use it for the house in emergencies. I would love the EU3000 but it will not fit under my current tonneau. I see that some places sell them with tri-fuel adapters that can handle gasoline, propane, and natural gas. Something else to think about. I have no doubt that the Cummins will start no problem. I just want quicker heat. I must be getting old



Joe

 

[PVasilauskis]

Correct, as long as the generator has enough power to handle the initial surge.

There is nothing there to cause a surge.



Initially I spouted off a bunch of stuff about electric motor starting current and how this ain't no electric motor blah blah blah. Then I heard the huge pop as I pulled my head out of my butt and realized a surge isn't just a rush of current above the normal running current but dropping 750 Watts on a generator rated for 900 Watts* is also gonna put a surge like on it also. So I stand humbled and corrected.



*the EU1000 is rated at 900 Watts continuous 1000 Watts overload for 30 minutes. Honda makes some pretty good generators so I would think it could handle it. I woudn't plug it in while in Econo mode but it's not like the heater is something that would be damaged by a reduced voltage.



PS: Klenger, I like your website. Used it when I put together and wired my inbed 7-way connector, thanks for the info!

 

[DwayneKelch]

Gentlemen,



Finally, as promised, the results from testing current draw of an engine block heating element on a Dodge/Cummins diesel:



- Test instruments, Fluke T5-600 and Extech AC line splitter

- Voltage at extension cord plug-end prior to test - 117 VAC (voltage not

monitored thereafter)

- Current draw upon plugging block heater in - 6. 0 amps

-- Current draw at < 1 sec - 5. 9 amps

-- Current draw at 10 mins - 5. 8 amps

-- Current draw at 20 mins - 5. 7 amps

-- Current draw at 30 mins - 5. 9 amps

-- Current draw at 40 mins - 5. 8 amps



The 6. 0 amps is of no benefit for this test as this was caused by plugging in the cord (a switched circuit would have been better). The voltage may have varied slightly during test and could have had an impact on amperage readings too.



However, the reading obtained substantiated that there isn't a true surge in current (as seen with electric motors) upon applying voltage to the heating element. Also, the amperage draw remained relatively constant. There wasn't enough variance to write home about.



After completing my test, I wished that I had monitored voltage along with current. This would have allowed me to determine whether the heating element created the drop in current, or that an increase in supply voltage brought the current down.



Plugging the results into the the power formula (P=IxE):



- P= 6x117= 702 watts

- P= 5. 9x117= 690. 3 watts

- P= 5. 8x117= 678. 6 watts

- P= 5. 7x117= 666. 9 watts



Is the heating element rated at 750 watts? Probably. When dealing with resistive elements, unless paying more money, there's a tolerance built (a +/- percentage of rated resistance) into the device. If I was to use ohms law (E=IxR), I could figure out the resistive value of my block heater... about 19. 8 ohms.



Because of the tolerance allowed for these resistive elements, others could do the same test and end up with slightly different results. Either way, tdinut (Joe) could support the block heating element without a problem with a Honda EU2000i generator.



Hope this info helps. Take care.





Dwayne

 

[tdinut]

Thanks Dwayne !

I really appreciate the time and effort you put into this test. I had a feeling it would work without much problem. I am also going to add a 250 watt Wolverine oil pan heater and wire them independently. This way I can choose one or both to plug in (total 1000 watts for both). I hear that some people exclusively use an oil pan heater, and that will eventually heat the whole engine. There is a chill in the air already and I'm not really looking forward to the winter. I plan on picking up an EU2000i in the next week or two.



Joe

 

[KL7TQ]

I use an EU 2000i when I go out to my cabin. the truck may sit for days in temperatures down to -40f the truck starts OK without heat to -20f.

1st change the oil to a synthetic or semi synthetic.

when you plug the block heater in wait a minute until the generator goes into the EU mode then I plug in the 750 w cab heater (warm Seat fix). then I load up the truck and trailer, shoot the bull for a while and Walla it starts easy, cab is warm and I'm off.

 

[DwayneKelch]

Joe,



You're welcome. I enjoy toying around with little projects/tests like this. The Honda EU2000i is an awesome little generator. I have two of them. In fact, I just bought the second off of Ebay for $837 shipped to my door. It was used with around twenty five hours (engine is broke-in, therefore I added Amsoil). The generator looked brand new, in better shape than the one I already had. Look on Ebay unless you have a source that can get you a reduced price. I ordered the parallel cable and I'm anxious to see how it works.



By the way, the generator will purr along with both the block and pan heaters cooking at the same time. Take care.



KL7TQ,



I lived in Alaska for 8 years, stationed at Elmendorf, lived in Chugiak... just north of your dwelling. I get to missing it at times (especially when it breaks over 95 degrees where I live now). I hope to make a trip up there next year.





Dwayne

 

[MAshley]

I didn't see what year you have but last winter in Wyoming I was drivign through -21 F for hrs, parked it over night, woke up in the morning -19. Walked out to the truck, waited for the light to go off, switch the key off and on again until the light went off a 2nd time, "dont' know if 2 times is good or bad" and cranked it over..... started right up, mind you it had a little bit of a miss for a min or 2 then she purred like a kitten. Once I was sure things were lubed and running normal I switch on the EX brake for a few min, packed up the truck and took off. I don't know how windchild factors in on metal and such but the temps were not including the wind child. As a comparison my skid steer loader John Deere on the trailer, took about 10 - 15 min of warming up the glow plugs and cranking to get it to run. If I had to do it regulary at those temps I would have to plug the JD in no Questions about it, as to the dodge I would have liked to but I didn't need to. So honestly I don't think your going to help your engine longevity maybe unless its bone chilling cold out, -20 any thing warmer then freezing is just convinance for the operator.



06 dully, for comparisons

 

[KL7TQ]

Dwayne

thank you for your service to our country

 

[SMorneau]

You have gotten some good advice. A cold front is necessary, synthetic oil will help you start, you should be able to start your truck without a block heater down to at least -10F, the EU2000i is a sweet machine and it should also start easily down to -10F. My truck has started after sitting all day in a windy -20F but it won't idle smooth for several minutes. My VW Tdi, which has no block heater, will also start at -20F after sitting for days.



I don't have much experience with the Espar but I have a friend who has one in northern MN and he likes it a lot but it can be very hard on batteries so you have to pay attention to how you are using it. Although, his commute to work is like 3 miles so that is probably the problem with the batteries.



I have always been reluctant to add remote starting to my truck because when it is the coldest that is when I want to be there to make sure everything goes well when I turn the key. I don't know about the 3rd gens but my truck won't clear the windows on a cold day and you will get no heat until you start driving it. I have been told that an exhaust brake will get your engine to generate heat while sitting still so you might want to consider that.



I'll bet you will be surprised how well your truck starts this winter.

 

[tdinut]

Thanks everyone for your suggestions ...

I put my cold front on a couple of weeks ago and already it seems to help. I have 3 flaps/vents closed and am wondering if it's ok to drive with them all closed. So far, I can't find a dealer to install an exhaust brake. They just don't seem to want to do it. They all seem afraid for some reason. I found a NJ shop willing to install an Espar. It seems like major surgery and I'm afraid I don't want to switch to synthetic just yet, only 10,000 miles on her so far. I might consider a partial synthetic in 3-4K miles. I have no doubt the truck will start. My main concern is a clear windshield quickly. Thanks again.



Joe

 

[MCummings]

Wouldn't it be cheaper to run a 2nd battery, and a little plug in heater to the cigarette lighter?





Merrick

 

[Heavy D]

I just bought the EU2000 this week from here http://www.mayberrys.com/

they don't list prices because they sell lower than list. I paid 875 new for it and I think the shipping was free. I have to look for the bill to remember. They have all kind of generators. If interested I'd give them a call to find out other prices. I found this site reading reviews about the generator.

http://www.mayberrys.com/honda/generator/models/eu2000i.htm



Oh I don't know anybody or work for them. I'm just passing this along because I thought it was a good price.



This thing is way quiet too.