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Ever have a diesel runaway?

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Warranty..a couple of comments

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This is the first I've ever heard of this. I have recently discovered that if an oil seal goes in the turbo, or any situation where crank oil finds its way into the cylinders, that this will fuel the engine and cause a runaway condition.



Has anyone ever experienced this? What can you do about it? I'm told that if you have an extinguisher and you can inject it into the intake fast enough, you can save the engine. Is this true?



I haven't seen this discussed here before, but you guys seem to have covered everything else. Surely you've talked about this before.



Matt
 
diesel runaway

never seen runaway on 4 cycle but in my old diesel days seen gm 6-71 2cycle . caused by fuel transfer pump seal going bad . it was driven from the blower so fuel was drawen in cylinders. most engines had emergency shut down door that closed off air supply to blower. any diesel can have this happen if unmetered fuel is supplied to the engine. :eek:
 
There has been a couple of guys here that have had it happen, usually a turbo seal goes bad and sucks lube oil in and uses it for fuel. if you have a screwdriver handy pull the turbo intake hose off and cover the hole with something solid like a clipboard, even a rag prolly will do it even though it will mess up the turbo thats cheaper than a engine. A CO2 fire extinguisher into the intake by the right head light or other place depending on your air cleaner setup will do it real good. I mounted one right behind the drivers seat just in case.
 
I had a John Deere tractor engine run away on me once, problem was I was over a mile from the shop and a CO2 extinguisher. I restarted the tractor by turning key back on, it smoked like he!! on the way back to the shop where I CO2ed it off. The problem was the oil return line from the turbo had kinked and oil pressure was forced though the turbo seals, $2 piece of hose fixed it.

Also worked on friend's VW diesel Rabbit that was running on a lot. It's problem was shot rings that were allowing much blowby, which was returned to the air filter, then to the engine. The air filter and intake were totally oil soaked. The fix for that one was to direct the blowby to the ground until the engine could be rebuilt.
 
I heard of this when I wa a kid, It happen at a Truck shop and they ran away when they couldn't control it, said it took a little while before it went... . BOOOOOOOOOM... . said it scaddered parts all over the shop!
 
I had a similar situation to illflem... . lost a seal in the turbo and caught our case tractor on fire. I haven't had a run away yet and hope I don't;)
 
runaway with my TD Trooper

I had a runaway situation with my Isuzu Trooper Turbo Diesel. It seems the car in front of me at the tolls on the NJ Turnpike was a wee bit of decades late for a tune up. She was spewing some wicked fumes, which the Trooper began eating for breakfast. As the RPMs reached 2500, I made the decision to shove the gearshift into 5th and sidestep the clutch. That shut her off immediately. Of course I was moving rather slowly. But if I wasn't, a panic brake would be all I needed. Sorry, automatics. I've heard of everything from a fire extinguisher to yanking off the airbox and shoving a piece of wood over the hole to kill the engine. Either way, a clutch or a busted turbo are much easier to fix than an engine.
 
The mechanic working in the stall next to me overfilled an oil bath air filter on DD 4-53 powered fire pump. What a racket as that screamer would up.
 
Yikes!

Had a 3406B 425 hp Caterpillar run away on an uphill pull once, lunched the turbo seals. Noticed it when she kept pulling hard up past the 2100 rpm redline. All's I could think of to do was mash down hard on the brake pedal and pull that trolley into my lap. Didn't even DARE touch the clutch...



Finally got her stopped and shut down in gear, but those brakes were smokin'! Put in a call to the fleet mechanic, and he wanted to know if I could nurse it back to the shop just 7-8 miles away. I said not just no, but HELL NO! So he shows up in the service truck and is going to be the hero and drive the truck back in.



I follow behind in his service truck and watch THIS action. He fires it up in gear (2nd I think) and it takes right off, smoking like a locomotive.

He gets one upshift in it before it's WAY past the redline and I can see the brake lights come on and smoke starts pouring out of the wheels. Now, with 30 ton of washed sand in the wagon, the brakes won't lock up, and in third gear (out of 15) he drags along for over a mile before it grinds to a halt, just POURING black smoke out. He jumps out of the cab all excited and jittery, and says maybe we oughta call a wrecker. :rolleyes:

We checked the dipstick while waiting, and there was almost no oil left in the crankcase!
 
Some of the Detroit 8. 2 engine have electronic governors. When the tps take a dump some of them go wot. The fun part now is trying to find parts for the governor. The last 2 we have had convert back to mecanical.
 
Never to me personally-but my brother had one runaway when he drove tank truck. Got a sniff of gas and away she went-he had an air shutoff but it was manually activated. Probably saved his life but it was too late for the engine... .



That's why my truck has an automatically activated air shutoff-mandatory to work for a lot of companies out here in the 'patch (but not the one I'm with right now... ). I would have installed one anyway-way too easy to get in the path of some wayward gas.



Jason
 
Jason,

Could you post some info on this? I have seen 2 Trucks destroy the engines while on their sides in an accident. I worry about this runaway thing and would love to install a mechanical shutoff. Sounds like they are available, but I have not seen one. ;) ;)
 
Oh Jason, what I would do for information on an air shut off system...



I work out in th oilfields part time, and have to do a bunch of idleing sometimes. Me and my Dad deal alot with Pressure testing (That's our business) but we do get Natural gas out of the wells sometimes when bleeding off pressure. I would hate to have my truck start having the RPMs soar to 3K+ and me, either not be able to get to my Baby in time, or to get there, just to have it blow an input/output shaft when I try to let the clutch out to kill it. Ohhh, The horror.



This would, not only leave me without a ride, and transportation. but I would also be the price of a motor,, in the hole.



Figure this is a good safety device,, I have never heard about any regulations in the oilfield about engine runaway preventers.

I have a fire extinguisher, but would like something that can tell the motor is going to kiss it's life goodbye, and shut the Diesel down, BEFORE major damage occurs.



MerrickNJr
 
I was working on my bosses 2 cyl. volvo diesel in his boat once, it ran his hydraulics and refrigration in his fishing boat. Anyway to make a short story long, he had installed 3cyl piston and rings that were a hair smaller than the 2cyl. ones but still ran. Had unbelievable piston skirt slap and made a hell of a racket. Any on its final run in the harbor, we were trying to figure out a overheating problem when the rings gave way i guess, this piece of crap was going crazy, these things arent the smoothest running engines when the ARE put together right. Dont know the actual RPM this thing was running but it was HIGH. Didnt have a breather on it so we started shoving rags down its throat, problem was they were soaked in all kinds of solvents, carb cleaner, WD-40 and the like. After eating about a dozen or so rags and towels and almost some fingers, everybody we jumped out of the motor box and waited for the thing too blow. This took about 3 minutes, just enough time for everyone in the harbor to come around and watch the show. It was a sight to see.



Aloha.
 
Here's some more info for ya....! (insanely long post...)

I'm a field operator for an oil and gas company up here in Alberta. I wanted an air shutoff because my job involves blowing wells to atmosphere to unload them, as well as occasionally bleeding down pipelines, and routine fuel gas venting through pumps etc. Most companies kinda turn a blind eye to diesel-powered operator's trucks... . but some have a policy that anything diesel-powered must have a positive air shutoff-and some even mandate automatic trip ability. Hear that Talisman and Union Pacific Resources make you prove that they work before they let you on lease-if it doesn't you go home until it does. As far as I know Talisman makes tank trucks test every month when they arrive at the battery with a load-if it don't shut down they shut you down-and you leave with your load still on:eek: .



Before I became an operator I drove a tank truck for 6 years-so I became fairly familiar with the setup. The old Star I drove had a Roda Deaco valve that was supposedly automatically actuated from a signal from the tachograph-pretty sure it didn't work. It used a Murphy tattletale relay to show that it had tripped and a dash-mounted toggle to manually trip. When you tripped it the Murphy closed which opened an air solenoid plumbed straight to the tank. The valve itself was latched open with a spring and pawl-the air tripped the pawl out allowing the valve to close. Dad drove a newer Star-the trip mechanism was still the same but the auto-speed sense was a bell-housing mounted trigger that sent pulses to an electronic control box. When you exceeded the preselected limit it opened the air solenoid-quite a bit more failsafe than the older truck. The 2000 KW I had just before I quit was even simpler-it took a speed signal right from the Cat ECM-but it still had a separate Amot control box to actually trip the shutdown.



The setup that I have on my truck came from Roda Deaco as well. They are an Alberta company headquartered in Edmonton that do nothing else but build PAS assemblies. They build valves from 2" to I forget how big! They do have a website as well at www.rodadeaco.com . They make a kit specifically to fit the Dodge/Cummins trucks as well as most other light trucks. It requires you to cut somewhere around 3" (just a little more than that I think) out of the intercooler pipe that runs between the intercooler and the intake manifold. The valve then mounts with silicone-type straight rad hose in between the 2 pieces. It's tight but everything fits with a little room to spare. They will sell you a manually actuated valve if you want-I believe it uses a PTO-style control cable to pull the pawl out of place and then spring pressure closes the valve-but it could be that the cable actually does. I didn't research this style very much as I wanted something automatically controllable. The automatic one uses a solenoid to pull the valve closed. It has a manual toggle in the cab so the operator can throw it if necessary, and a speed-sensing adjustable RPM switch. The slick part is how it senses engine speed. Instead of a flywheel magnet-type thing, it ties a wire to the alternator ahead of the rectifier bridge. By doing this they measure the frequency of the alternator's AC output-which increases with increasing RPM. And the way our alternators are designed you don't even have to dismantle them-just pull them off the truck so you can pull that tin cover off the back.



To set the RPM switch you disconnect its output (so it won't trip the shutdown) and hold down a button on the box's face which makes the module trip its output at 2/3 of programmed speed. Then it's just a matter of throttling to 2/3 of where you want to shut down, adjusting a trim pot until the red LED lights up (indicating shutdown threshold) and letting the button go and running up to governed speed to make sure you're not shutting down there. I tweaked mine to just a whisker over governed so I don't knock the engine down if I have to race a PSD :D



It does require regular testing though to make sure that the wiring is all intact, as well as a quick check of the alternator sensing wire to make sure all is well. But so far I'm happy with it. It was around $1100 CDN I believe-which is way cheaper than an engine-or skin grafts for that matter. Know of a few guys in the tank truck industry here who got burned badly when an engine ran away and exploded thereby igniting the atmosphere which caused the runaway in the first place. Most of them were running to the truck to try and shut it down-so they ran right into the fireball :(



I see when I look back at the order sheet for the KW I drove that Kenworth spec'd the PAS from Amot. So maybe they supply a valve small enough to fit our trucks as well. I still lean towards the Roda Deaco stuff though because it comes in a prepackaged kit and their stuff is good. And their customer service is great too-they have an install shop there but they have absolutely no qualms about telling you exactly how to put it in... . in the last e-mail I received from them (when I asked them for some more specific details about the alternator wire tie-in) "If you have any further questions, please contact us. Any problems-let us know. No problems-let others know. Conrad Bodnar, Operations Manager, Roda Deaco Valve Ltd. " So I spread the word near and far that they're the guys to see... .



Sorry for the length of this post-I tried to fit in everything I actually could remember. Probably 10 minutes from now I'll think of something really important ;) . If you think of something else specific you want to know I'll be glad to answer.



Jason
 
I had a VW diesel with around 250,000 miles on her. I pulled off the freeway to an off ramp in 100+ weather and let off the pedal and the engine kept running, actually speeded up to redline. A quick clutch dump in 5th gear managed to kill the engine. After a tow home and a repeat peformance it was determined that piston blowby was exceeding the PCV capacity allowing oil mist to enter the incoming air stream. The air filter chamber was soaked with engine oil. It was decided to retire the car. I still miss it and it's 52MPG. It would dependably start at -24F when the gassers were calling for tow trucks.
 
I've witnessed a late model 6-71 (turbo) run away. What happened was the man working on it was setting up the rack and governor, and it got away from him. This is easy to happen. I don't know how fast she spun to but she was SCREAMING!!!!!! I heard it start to take off from the other end of the shop, it sounded like someone really abusing a car engine. When I realized what it was I grabbed a Co2 extinguisher and ran over. They had the trap door closed and were taking off the inlet hose to the turbo and I was ready to shoot but before I did one Man took a wide flat shovel and slapped it over the turbo. This did kill it but it took a long time. I don't know how this thing didn't blow, add the fact that it was driving a remote Hydraulic cooling fan made it that much louder. Once buttoned up it ran fine and as far as I know is still putting around.
 
Diesel Engine Runaway

Our small fire department had an engine runaway on a 1971 Mack CF600 pumper, the contracted service people had washed part of the air intake system in Safety-Kleen solvent. The 673 Mack engine broke a piston, and ruined the cylinder sleeve. I suppose they learned never assemble and run an engine with solvent in the airbox . The service company fixed the engine with a new sleeve, piston etc, we had no pumper truck in service due to their error. Rick.
 
Glad I asked!

These are some great stories! I can't tell you how badly I needed a good laugh, and some of these really set me off.



If anyone else has a good tale to tell, I'd love to hear it.



Matt
 
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