Ever heard of Baldwin fuel filters ?

[Buffalo]

Hi Joe.



I am going to May Madness. Paid my money as soon as I heard about it. This will be my fourth time. Got my RV space reserved, also.



Just wanted to mention how much I appreciated the opportunity to listen and speak with Mr. Dennis Hurst, the Executive Engineer from Cummins who apparently is the person in charge of the development of our new HPCR engines. (Mr. Hurst gave a seminar at the 2004 MM). Also, got to listen to and speak with Mr. Mark Chapple (of TST Products) who, I believe, is a retired engineer with Cummins.



Neither one of these men thought that filteration below the 10 micron level was that important.



A friend of mine monitors the dieselplace.com (Duramax) website quite a bit and there is a big interest in finer filteration as a solution to the injector problems. Some of the guys there are coming up with new filtering options.

I don't know if this the answer, or not.



I'm really, looking forward to the seminars, this year.



Thanks, again, for putting all of this together. Maybe, we'll get some more questions answered, again.



Joe F. (Buffalo)

 

[CPG]

Joe (Buffalo)



I am a member of the "old School" of mechanics, but basic things have not changed much. These newer engines are a far cry from the ones I worked with on the big rigs. Things are much the same in the PM situation and

Joe Donnely is the "new generation" of information on the topic of our engines. I fully believe his comments should be adhered to.

To attend May Madness would greatly enlighten you to much desired information.



Chuck Goode

 

[Cigar John]

When Cummins went to the new combination full flow/bypass filters on the NTC engines the boss went out and bought Baldwins,I cut one open and it didn't even have a bypass stage in it. Needless to say I convinced him to run Fleetguards.

 

[phloop]

Got the money for the lawyer you'll need to inforce the M/M act?



Not trying to be a smart***, but fleetguard works for me. Oo.

As this topic is different than the BS that is always brought up about the M/M act saving your warranty when you decide to bomb your rig, why the lawyer? No, I do not have the money to take on Cummins but I also do not worry about, nor am I anal about, using every last thing that Cummins says I should. The purpose of the M/M act is to protect you when you do chose to use aftermarket replacement parts rather than the manufacture supplied replacement parts. If the part is proprietary, then yes they can say use only our part. As fuel, air and oil filters are not proprietary, they can not say use only our filter or your warranty will be voided. As I do not use either the Fleetguard nor the Baldwin filters, I guess I should just bow out of this. I have a feeling that this will not go anywhere but south. This is better than this :-{} .

 

[RustyJC]

Speaking of filtration ratings, here's an interesting read from Machinery Lubrication magazine:

Filter Selection

This can be the most difficult process of all, because of the complexity of filter ratings and nomenclature. Filters are rated in a number of ways by manufacturers; the three most common being nominal rating, absolute rating and beta rating.



Nominal Rating

A nominal rating is an arbitrary micrometer value indicated by the filter manufacturer.



Absolute Rating

An absolute rating is the diameter of the largest solid spherical particle that will pass through a filter under specified conditions. This is an indication of the largest opening in the filter element.



Beta Rating

While the nominal and absolute ratings are not supported by industry standards, the Beta rating comes from the Multipass Method for Evaluating Filtration Performance of a Fine Filter Element (ISO 16889:1999). While the filter is being tested, particle counters accurately measure the size and quantity of upstream particles per known volume of fluid (number of particles upstream) and the size and quantity of particles downstream of the filter (number of particles downstream). The number of particles of a given size upstream divided by the number of particles of the same size downstream gives a result called a Beta ratio. For example, a Beta ratio of particles above 3 µm in size with 50,000 upstream particles and 250 downstream particles would be represented as 3 = 50,000 / 250 = 200. In words, this filter would have a rating described as “Beta sub 3 equals 200. ” This result, known as a Beta ratio, can also give the efficiency of a filter. It is simply (1- 1/) x 100 = percent capture efficiency (using the same example: (1-1/200) x 100 = 99. 5 percent capture efficient. See Table 1.





Table 1. Beta vs. Efficiency



Beta... Efficiency Capture %



2... ... ... ... . 50

10... ... ... ... 90

50... ... ... ... 98

75... ... ... ... 98. 67

100... ... ... . 99

200... ... ... . 99. 5

1000... ..... 99. 9







A standard multipass method for evaluating the performance of hydraulic fluid power filter elements under steady-state conditions had been developed as ISO 4572:1981. This test procedure provides a basis for the comparison of the relative performance characteristics of various filter elements. This standard had not been revised since its last approval as an ISO standard in 1981. The ISO group worked on the revision for many years and finally approved the new standard as the Method for Evaluating Filtration Performance of a Fine Filter Element (ISO 16889:1999). Some of the major revisions included a new test dust; this dust replaced the old AC Fine Test Dust that is no longer available, a new particle counter calibration procedure using a new calibration fluid which is National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST)-traceable, a new specification for an on-line particle counter, and a new validation procedure. The ISO 4402 particle counter calibration standard became the ISO 11711:1999 standard.

Rusty

 

[rashwor]

Phloop... guess it did not do any good to say I was not trying to be a smart***. :-laf



Anyway, I stand by my original comment highlighted by phloop. Fleetguard works for me. Here is my reasoning. 1) Cheaper than Mopar at the dealer 2) Cheaper than Wix from my distributers. 3) Recommended by Cummins. 4) Same filter as Mopar.



Now, someone flame me for Wix. :-laf I have run Wix filters on my '92 and '99 CTDs and never had a problem and never worried about it. I know full well it is not on the recommended list or accepted list. Fine by me. I would run them on the '05 if the fleetguards were not cheaper.



I know many people in the logging business and most all of them run Wix filters on all of their trucks and equipment and have no ill problems due to filtration. We run them on all our farm equipment with no problems as well.



In closing, I seriously doubt that if you choose a good quality filter that you will ever need warranty work due to a filtration problem.



Here is my above point explained: If you choose to use something other than what is recommended and a problem occurs and you expect to just say M/M and all your problems go away, you are mistaken. You will need the money for a lawyer to enforce M/M.



I hope no one is offended by my above statements or reasoning.

 

[rbattelle]

Rusty,



Do you ever make a bad post? Great info!!



-Ryan

 

[magothy1]

Baldwin filters

I have a twin Cummins shrimp trawler, been running nothing but Baldwin oil filters forever, but I can't say about these truck fuel filters.

 

[Ol'TrailDog]

Okay Rusty, if you're so darn smart how did they get the micron mu "u" symbol to have the leading tail. :-laf Great post.



There was another thread about 2u filteration not long ago. (https://www.turbodieselregistry.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125009&highlight=2+microns) The bottomline seems to be how do we achieve efficient 2u filtration with a reasonable amount of effort, time, and expense, i. e. you can see Ryans herculian efforts link at the above link.



Below are a couple of links from the dodgeram.org that reference 2u filteration for the ISB (hence should be applicable to the ISBe also.

http://dodgeram.org/tech/dsl/Facts/98ISBspecs.html

(mentions the change to 2u filters)

http://www.dodgeram.org/tech/dsl/filter/00fuel_filter.htm

(2u mentioned - Racor filters)

http://www.dodgeram.org/tech/dsl/Facts/01ISBspecs.html

(changing parts #)



I PMed tomeygun to see if he could garner some info from the service department on the filtration ratings for the Mopar filters. He said he would check, but as of yet he hasn't gotten back to us. I see Racor is also mentioned in association with 2u filters for the CTDs.



So, I see some outstanding questions.

1. Is 2u filtration the salvation of our injectors.

2. Does anyone make 2u filters that will work in the stock application. Dodgeram.org indicates Mopar does.

3. Who makes Mopar fuel filters?

4. Are Mopar filters 2u absolute? If Mopars are 2u I'd switch in a heartbeat from Fleetguard stratos.

5. How about the 3u AirDog and FASS systems? Nominal 3u or absolute?

6. Ryan, would your Davco solution work by plumbing just the 382 (or whichever model) between the stock filter and the CP3 without the extras? I see Fleetguard and Racor have similar systems on the market.

7. Is the information at May Madness going to be along the lines of: Mr. Brand X, who markets only 10u filters, telling the adulating crowds in his best Alfred E. Newman voice - "Not to worry". Okay, forgive the skeptical cynicism.

8. Will the May Madness information be dispensed to the non-attendees in an upcoming issue of TDR.

9. Will my truck make it until then? Personally, I regard this as a more important mod than getting my planned Kore suspension on.

 

[RustyJC]

Okay Rusty, if you're so darn smart how did they get the micron mu "u" symbol to have the leading tail. :-laf

Like this, I guess..... µµµµµµµµ :-laf :-laf



Rusty

 

[rbattelle]

2. Does anyone make 2u filters that will work in the stock application. Dodgeram.org indicates Mopar does.

I highly doubt it (although it would be nice). There are 2 problems with making a 2 micron filter for the stock canister. First, it takes a lot of force to squeeze the fluid through a 2 micron filter and I'm not sure the stock lift pump is up to the task. Second, if you're going to filter to 2 micron you need a lot of filter surface area, otherwise you'll be replacing filters every week.

3. Who makes Mopar fuel filters?

I'm pretty sure Fleetguard does.

6. Ryan, would your Davco solution work by plumbing just the 382 (or whichever model) between the stock filter and the CP3 without the extras? I see Fleetguard and Racor have similar systems on the market.

Granted, my effort is "Herculean", but I'm doing a "best case scenario" and my system could probably be done a bit simpler. In fact, my system has gotten a lot simpler since the beginning. I'm not using the Davco anymore (too large... doesn't fit anywhere), I'm using a Stanadyne Fuel Manager instead (still 2 micron absolute). And I'm switching to Pulse Width Modulation control of the fuel pump, which eliminates the need for a regulator and associated plumbing. When I finish the project I'll post part numbers and prices for exactly what I used in the end. I think it will come out cheaper than FASS or Airdog, but that's just a guess at this point.

9. Will my truck make it until then? Personally, I regard this as a more important mod than getting my planned Kore suspension on.

I would say "yes, probably".



-Ryan

 

[Ol'TrailDog]

Like this, I guess..... µµµµµµµµ

Wow! Rusty, either you are plumb genius, or you cheated by cut/paste?





Ryan, thanks for the info.

I would say "yes, probably".

:-laf

 

[RustyJC]

Wow! Rusty, either you are plumb genius, or you cheated by cut/paste?

Hmmmm... ... is it ASCII or is it ain't??? :-laf



Rusty