Competition Ever see a 1000hp truck spooling up?

[jetenginedoctor]

Because Rabid Ram, Jet Dr brought it up.



I still am floored by his statement, hilarious!

Shoot me a phone number and we'll talk more about this one on one. You're taking what I've written out of context, and it's pointless to go on and on about it here.



BK

 

[jwilliams3]

Here we go again! :-{}

 

[COMP461]

You guys should under stand torque, is component of achieving work.



Let’s start by defining work as horse power, whether its drag racing or pulling a sled. Contrary to your beliefs horse power is what pulls a sled. And horse power is what accelerates a race car down the track. I assure you I could pull a sled down the course with a prostock motor just as good as any diesel out there, only problem is that a prostock motor would not last that long under full load. And a truck pull motor could run in a prostock car, only problem besides weight is that there are no gears available, and here is the other part , it WILL NOT REV GAIN LIKE A GAS MOTOR.



One more time TORQUE is the bucket that you carry the water up the hill. RPM’s is how fast you run up the hill HORSE POWER is how much water you get on the top of the hill. As you run faster you can not carry as big a bucket, but if you carry smaller buckets faster you achieve more water on the top of the hill. Now this analogy get a little strange from here on out. Lets take this farther the slope of the hill is the load you can apply with out spinning tire of losing traction. a big guy and carry a big bucket up the hill and so can the little guy , but the little guy runs faster , they achieves the same results , as the hill flattens out the little guy can run even faster and this is how I try to explain rev gain.





Bottom line the ability to rev a diesel up and make it rev gain is the reason I am able to go fast and with out the so called giants of the diesel pullers help. In a lot of ways I have pulled ahead of them for the moment , keep on thinking that low RPM torque is king while I run diesels first 7 second pass in the next year.

 

[Forrest Nearing]

horsepower is just an equation of WHERE in the powerband you make your torque...



horsepower tells you how quickly/often you can USE that torque...



horsepower wins races... torque pulls trailers...



Forrest

 

[Forrest Nearing]

and by that logic, at the drag strip, horsepower is king...



I've never pulled a sled, but if you had unlimited traction and components that would hold up to the constant high torque, torque would be king... but every video I've seen showed a traction limited situation and a sled that got heavier as you went... best runs seem to be the ones that get the sled/keep the sled moving FAST... to do that, you need horsepower.



Forrest

 

[Sled Puller]

, keep on thinking that low RPM torque is king while I run diesels first 7 second pass in the next year.

Oh?

Did Scheids install a hitch to drag you down the 1/4 behind the rail?







You guys keep trying to make an inline 6 scream like a gasser V-8.

The gasser V-8 HAS to scream because it is way shy on torque.



I never said HP was not important.

I never said more rpms were a bad thing.



But my personal feeling, is you have a torque monster under the hood right now, why re- engineer it to make it like a gasser?



We have been beating gassers right along using the massive torque advantage, on the pulling track. ( You are right Forrest, most sleds, speed wins. Thats why we run direct. )



There is no reason you can't do the same thing on the strip-unless you do not comprehend where a Diesel's advantages are.

.



And I know of noone that thinks its hard to get HP out of these engines.

 

[jwilliams3]

Back to basics... ... .

Scheid Diesel is making the most horsepower with the Cummins B.

 

[csevers]

Justin PLEASE pass the piece pipe to some one else your full!!! :-laf The big power houses are a lot closer than you would think.



Craig

 

[DieselMinded]

Hhmmmmmm????

How Close ????

 

[JDailey]

How close on a POWER track???

 

[jwilliams3]

Craig,



EEP's white truck is come along way and I am glad to see that.

Yes, it has alot of power.

You guys won the big pull at the end of the year, Congrats.



Since you threw in the peace pipe statement, here you go:



You guys were close enough to win Scheids truck how many times last year?

The 20 times that Scheids won, the big white truck was no where to be seen... . Muncie? Scheid? (maybe I missed it?)



Maybe I was asleep through the Mod class ZzzzZZZzzz... ... :-laf :-laf



BTW... Scheids doesn't have to try a new set of tires and wheels every week to get close.

You know why.

 

[Got Smoke?]

better get the waders the official I TRIED TO BY-PASS THE CUSSING FILTER stirer has spoken! :-laf

 

[DieselMinded]

I like both trucks



Maybe they should just drop chains and we can really see whos better ??



I liked the sleds better that didnt have the spikes come down @ 3/4 track every truck seems to be doing great then the spikes come down and they stop real fast its got to be harder on the trucks then stoping at a slow rate buy powering out or loseing traction I like the old style sleds. new sleds are all about getting as much speed at the start built up so the momentum can help plow the track when the spikes come out . on the old sleds you could still be accelerating @ 3/4 track . I personally feel IMO for what its worth (NOT MUCH) Schiend could win most of the spiked sled pulls ( Because of his speed) but he could never touch mitchel on a real drag sled (RAW PULLING POWER).



Im here to make friends its just my opinion .



DM

 

[fest3er]

You guys should under stand torque, is component of achieving work.



Let’s start by defining work as horse power, whether its drag racing or pulling a sled. Contrary to your beliefs horse power is what pulls a sled. ...

Let's start by correctly defining the terms we are using. Allow me to quote Webster's.



"work: 2c. : the transference of energy that is produced byt the motion of the point of application of a force and is measured by multiplying the force and the displacement of its point of application in the line of action". Multiplying force by distance is, for example, foot * pound; in other words, torque is work.



"power: 6c: the time rate at which work is done or energy emitted or transferred. " "horsepower: 2: a unit of power equal in the US to 746 watts and nearly equivalent to the English gravitational unit of the same name that equals 550 foot-pounds of work per second. " Either way, power and HP are work done per unit time.



So, suppose you have a device that generates HP, which is torque / time, or torque x RPM * / (60 seconds) / 5252. If you use 402HP (at 3K RPM) for 10 seconds, you have (for an engine): (700 ft-lb/sec * 3000 / 5252) * (10 seconds), or 700 ft-lb * 3000/5252*10. Since the seconds cancel out, what has actually moved you down the dragstrip is: torque.



Torque is not a 'component of achieving work'. Instead, torque is work. On the other hand, power (e. g. , HP) is a component of accomplishing work. I must admit that it appears that higher RPMs increase the actual work that can be accomplished in a period of time. But then, using the above example, HP can be doubled either by doubling the torque or doubling the RPM.



Either way, it would seem that, to gain maximum acceleration when using a non-locking torque converter, you want the highest torque you can get at the highest RPM you can achieve. If using a locking TC or a manual trans, you want the highest and flattest torque curve you can make in your RPM-gear range.



Hmmm; http://www.musclecarclub.com/library/dictionary/engine-terms.shtml quite nicely describes the derivation of the standard HP equation.



N

 

[banshee]

Torque is not a 'component of achieving work'. Instead, torque is work. On the other hand, power (e. g. , HP) is a component of accomplishing work. N

This is a completely incorrect statement. Torque is NOT work... never has been and never will be. It is a coupled force that imparts rotation upon a shaft ONLY! You must be getting confused with the dictionary definition of work (force X distance) and thinking work and torque are the same since they have the "same" units... NOT SO!!



If you have a 7000 lb truck and you move it in a straight line 10 feet you have done 70,000 ft-lbs of work on that truck. The faster you do it the more power it takes. As you know, work is force times distance. The distance in this case is 10 feet. But, what is the force that moves it?? Ahhhh... Torque !!!!



You quoted the dictionary, so take a look under the listing of Torque. From www.dictionary.com:



1. The moment of a force; the measure of a force's tendency to produce torsion and rotation about an axis, equal to the vector product of the radius vector from the axis of rotation to the point of application of the force and the force vector.



2. A turning or twisting force.



Nowhere in the definition does it say work, and it won't because it doesn't add up in the equations.



Bottom line, TORQUE is the FORCE that twists your rear axle. It can be multiplied by gearing to increase the amount of push you feel in the seat (i. e. stronger accel in 1st gear than 5th gear). The rate of that torque being applied is power (force * velocity). That's where the 5252 comes from. 1HP = 550 lbs 1 ft in 1 second or 33000 lbs 1 ft in 1 minute. 1 revolution = 2PI radians or 6. 28 radians. Therefore, HP = TQ * RPM / (33000/6. 28... ).



Comp,



Your water bucket analogy is a good way to explain the idea behind the relationship between TQ & HP.



JP

 

[Sled Puller]

.



TORQUE ROCKS. Oo. Its the twisting force that make Diesels King.

.

He is ALL WET on the bucket analogy, read it closely. He almost had it, but then got lost half way up the hill, trying to catch a bucket with SCHEID on the side of it.

 

[KB0OU]

To do 70,000 Ft. Lb of work you would have to lift the 7,000 lb. 10 feet vertically, not move it horizontally.

1 HP = 33,000 Lb. lifted 1 foot in 1 Minute, actually they measured a HP at about 22,000 Lb. lifted 1 Ft. in 1 Minute and added 50% to it, why, I do not know ask Mr. Steam Engine????????

 

[banshee]

To do 70,000 Ft. Lb of work you would have to lift the 7,000 lb. 10 feet vertically, not move it horizontally.

1 HP = 33,000 Lb. lifted 1 foot in 1 Minute, actually they measured a HP at about 22,000 Lb. lifted 1 Ft. in 1 Minute and added 50% to it, why, I do not know ask Mr. Steam Engine????????

That is true... good point there. I did fail to mention lifting and not just moving on the HP...



John

 

[Johnboy3]

Maybe they should just drop chains and we can really see whos better ??

Good god. I would cut off limbs to be able to make it to that show!!!

 

[jetenginedoctor]

He is ALL WET on the bucket analogy, read it closely. He almost had it, but then got lost half way up the hill, trying to catch a bucket with SCHEID on the side of it.

If an engine makes an assload of HP, but little torque, you can multiply whatever torque it DOES make with gear reduction, and still have the same HP. If you have an engine that makes an assload of TORQUE, but no HP, you haven't got a DAMN THING. If an engine makes 10 HP but 1000 Lb/ft of torque, you can't use gears to turn that 1000 lb/ft of torque into more HP, because YOU'VE ONLY GOT 10 HP!!!!!!



I've been as patient as anyone could possibly be with you. Just because the TQ number is higher than the HP number on your dyno sheets, you get all in love with whichever one is higher, and want to laugh and talk crap about all the gas engine vehicles with equal TQ and HP figures. Well, you guys are the ones being laughed at by the rest of the world that understands math and how TQ and HP are calculated. There have been no less than THREE people giving very good dumbed down for the mentally incapable explainations of how this stuff works, and still sLeD PuLlEr Joe wants to talk smack. The fact that you've got a competitive truck doesn't mean you have even the most fundamental clue of how the applied physics of what makes your engine work. No matter WHAT you think you know, TQ DOES NOT REPLACE HORSEPOWER. PERIOD! Twice the TQ means you make the same HP with half the RPM. . . . that's it!!!!!