Competition Ever see a 1000hp truck spooling up?

[LOtero]

i agree with rhondasway, humbling but shweeet videos

 

[jetenginedoctor]

I'm not confused, I have pulled against 700 hp gassers, vs my 500 hp Diesel, same weight, they stall out, we smoke the tires off at the end.



Why?

I have almost TWICE the tq they do.

Don't mix my words, I didn't say HP was not important, but Jet Jr said tq wasn't.



I stand by my words, in the previous posts.



We can pull more weight, with less fuel and more durability. Why? TORQUE.



TORQUE ROCKS. Oo. Its the twisting force that make Diesels King.

Let me know if you guys are still confused.

Hey brainiac, it's because the diesel makes it's HP across a greater portion of it's rev range, not because it makes more torque. You're comparing a turbocharged diesel engine to what I'd be willing to bet IS NOT a turbocharged gasoline engine. A turbo engine will almost always make it's power across a wider rev range than a similar power NA engine, no matter what fuel it burns. You're comparing pine apples to pine cones, and doing a pretty lousy job of it.



What is it you do for a living?? Drive a bulldozer and sell a little bit of engine oil????

 

[DieselMinded]

man kind of harsh



you need to PM or go to oilburners when you want to talk like that I pay into this site and I like to keep it friendly .



Cant you guys play nice



BTW what are KDP's Ive seen that before and never knew



Thanks

DM

 

[jetenginedoctor]

I'm not going to continue to sit quietly and let somebody who clearly couldn't find their crack with both hands try to talk down to me like I don't know what I'm talking about. I too find it disturbing that any of this kind of crap finds its way onto a forum you have to pay to post on. Maybe if there was an IQ screening, guys like Short Bus Puller would either not be able to post inaccurate and inflamitory crap like he has. Sadly, anyone with $35 in their pocket can join in the fun. But honestly, how many people who DO have an understanding of BASIC APPLIED PHYSICS tell you you're wrong before you shut up and quit running your yap? Notice I sat back and let everyone else come in and correct mister Puller, and yet he STILL takes cheap shots at me once he sees that I'm not interested in playing his little game?



Buddy, (Sled Puller) what's your REAL name? You talk a lot of junk, why must you hide if you're so sure of yourself? You're not skeeeered, are ya????

 

[COMP461]

:-{} :-{} :-{} :-{}

 

[JoshPeters]

OK OK OK guys! Enough! How about some INTELLIGENT reading.



http://www.tdr1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86330



I'd say this thread pretty much takes care of your little "war" about HP and Torque.



Josh

 

[Forrest Nearing]

sorry, I gave up where it said torque is the most important thing because it'll take you all day to reach higher RPM... NOT WITH THE RIGHT GEAR RATIOS!!! (or torque converter)



and sorry, but our engines make more torque than we can usually harness... focus on making horsepower, the torque will be plenty high enough to break plenty of stuff!!



Forrest

 

[Amianthus]

Click here and read.



I only have a couple of things to add. Where the article talks about measuring HP on a dyno, you actually measure torque. Now on a chassis dyno (load cell type) you can't directly measure flywheel torque, so you wind up measuring what is called Tractive Effort. This is the force that the rear wheels exert on the rollers. Given that you have TE measured and wheel speed measured, one can calculate hp. Now we have measured HP. All we need is engine speed and we can calculate engine torque, right? Not quite. You can extrapolate Engine torque based on calculated HP at the rear wheels. The problem is that because of drivetrain losses (parasitics that are not measured in this example), the HP number at the wheel is going to be lower than at the flywheel (by roughly 20%). Because this HP is not flywheel HP, the torque at the flywheel (based on RWHP) is not accurate. It will be somewhat lower than actual. I hope that this helps.



Now all that being said, there is one other thing I want to add about dynos (since we are on the HP kick). A Dynojet (inertial) dyno does not measure HP. It doesn't measure torque. It doesn't measure jack, except speed. How the machine works is this way. It has a constant load (weight). It has a measured speed. What happens is that during a power run, a base HP is calculated for the load at a given speed (you have roller speed and mass / weight). What you also get is acceleration of that mass. So you calculate the change in measured speed over time of the given mass. Then you add that to the calculated static HP (calculated for that moment of measurement). That gives you calculated HP at the rear wheels. Based on that calculation and a measured RPM at the flywheel, you can calculate torque. The same restrictions for flywheel torque above, apply for this calculation also. Lots of figuring going on when you run on an inertial dyno.



As for the debate on HP and Torque, the article above explains it quite well. I particularly like the example of the horse lifting 33,000 lbs (force or Torque in other words), one foot, in one minute. I also like the Horse that lifts 1 lb (force or TQ), and runs 33,000 feet in one minute (375 MPH)(like Sleddy's mouth :-laf ). The former example being a closer example to our beloved Diesels. The latter being an example of the gasser drag cars. With mechanical advantage (transmissions, torque converters, differentials, et al) being the example of the block and tackle. In summary, torque is what you feel. It's always what you feel because force is what the body will measure. More force = more torque (in our application). Horsepower cannot be measured (which is why it really is a crap measurement of power). Under any conditions! Force is what is measured and HP is what is calculated. Performance in any competition is a matter of how efficiently one uses the force available (torque). Whether it be lots of force at a slow speed (sled pull) or high speed and less force (drag race).



I hope this clears things up a bit. Although I don't think it will.



(Sleddy, aka MGM, who loves ya more than me. )

 

[csevers]

Justin Justin Justin..... :-laf :-laf Dave has ran the same two sets of tires all year long. I do believe that the schied truck has upgraded tire sizes this year at least once. If your truck doesn't fit the rules there is no reason to load up and drive across the state,is there?



Johnboy make that your legs so you still have your hands to clap for the winner. :-laf who ever it is.



Craig





Disclamer: all opinions posted under above member name (csevers) are the sole opinions of said member.

 

[Got Smoke?]

Justin Justin Justin..... :-laf :-laf Dave has ran the same two sets of tires all year long. I do believe that the schied truck has upgraded tire sizes this year at least once. If your truck doesn't fit the rules there is no reason to load up and drive across the state,is there?

Are their rules for tires size/kinds in the open classes?



I didn't think there were??

 

[jwilliams3]

Craig,

Your telling me that you guys didn't have a set of D. O. T. tires to fit a Dodge RAM 2500 @ EEP?







Now I have my waders on :-laf :-laf :-laf

 

[fest3er]

... Bottom line, TORQUE is the FORCE that twists your rear axle. ...

With all due respect, I must disagree. Torque and force are two different things. Force is measured as pounds. Torque is the multiplication of force through distance. Work is the measure of force causing displacement. Yes, I did confuse torque and work.



Take a 2000# dragster that contains 200# of fuel. Power it with a jet engine that produces 2200# of rearward force that diminishes to 2000# of force at the end of the dragstrip matching the rate at which fuel is consumed. The dragster will have constant acceleration down the track. However, since no RPM was needed to drive the wheels, there is no HP involved. For that matter, there is no torque involved, either. There is only force involved, because only force is required to displace an object, only force is required to perform work.



Now fit the dragster with gears and a rotating shaft to turn the wheels; the gears have 1:1 ratio, and the tires have 1 foot radius. Assume the dragster weighs 2000# now. Assume that the vehicle is attached to something behind it, so that 2000# of force can be applied to the shaft before launch, and once the 2000# is reached, the tether is released. To achieve the same forward acceleration as with the jet engine, you must apply 2000# of force at the interface between the tires and the pavement. This 2000# of force can be achieved by applying 2000# 1 foot from the rotating shaft, 1000# 2 feet from the shaft, or 4000# 6" from the shaft. (We ignore any losses in the drive train for this example. ) The force applied has been multiplied through distance.



In both cases, at the end of the quarter mile, the 2000# vehicle has been displaced 1320 feet - work has been performed. In the first case, HP was not involved, because a rotating engine was not driving the wheels. In the second case, HP could be measured only after the vehicle started moving (remembering that HP=Tq*RPM/5252: at 0 RPM, HP=0).



So it is not HP that moves a vehicle. It is force. And it is possible to use mechanical advantage (torque) to multiply force. If it were simply HP that moved/accelerated vehicles, our 7000# pickup trucks simply could not hang with smaller, light cars making more HP. Our trucks do hang with them because our diesel engines have so much more force available to accelerate them down the track.



As an aside, what's the most force you can use to accelerate a vehicle? Just a little more than the force of friction between the tires and the pavement. Back-calculate this force through the drivetrain, allowing for force consumed by the drivetrain, and you will have the amount of force the engine needs to generate to best accelerate the vehicle down the strip. Let's assume the tires have 2000# of friction, and they're 36" tall. That means you can apply 3000 ft-lb of torque at the axles. If you have a 2. 92 rear end, you can apply 1027. 4 ft-lb on the driveshaft. Assume a 2-spd trans. If the trans is in direct, the engine can apply 1027. 4 lb-ft to the trans. If the trans is in 2. 5:1 low gear, the engine can only apply 411 lb-ft of torque to the trans without exceeding the tire friction.



N

 

[Sled Puller]

Phone calls were made, beers will be bought, and I will continue to beat gassers with my low HP, high TQ Cummins!!



Hohn, banshee, fester, you guys can continue to try to outword each other, but the proof is on the track.

 

[jwilliams3]

Does this thread qualify for a 5-Star rating yet?

 

[KatDiesel]

Well obviously this post has gone astray. Will lock it for now until I (or someone else) can sift through it, but for now have to goto work.

 

[KatDiesel]

Unlocked so a few people can "Self edit" themselves.

 

[jetenginedoctor]

I appologize for my part in the name calling, folks. I oughta know better than to let guys like Gene get under my skin. Now that he knows I live in the bushes outside his house, he has a lot different outlook on things. . . . .



Don't ya, Sleddy?



BK

 

[justinp20012500]

I guess what needs to happen is for Brian to get some videos of the sled pulling tractors that are going to run on the dyno his company is building.

I think it would serve two purposes; 1 we can all see that a 1000 hp diesel can be dynoed at the wheels, 2 It would be way bad "butt" to see!!!

 

[HoleshotHolset]

With the EGT's seen on this thread... you'd think that we have been simultaneously debating the following controversies:

1. Amsoil VS. brand X
   
2. 12-valve VS. 24-valve (that one's a no brainer, by the way... :-laf )
   
3. Coke VS. Pepsi
   
4. K&N VS. brand X
   
5. Blondes VS. Brunettes (go brunettes!)
   
6. Aftermarket auto. transmission Y VS. Aftermarket auto. transmission Z
   

Matt

 

[justinp20012500]

With the EGT's seen on this thread... you'd think that we have been simultaneously debating the following controversies:

1. Amsoil VS. brand X
2. 12-valve VS. 24-valve (that one's a no brainer, by the way... :-laf )
3. Coke VS. Pepsi
4. K&N VS. brand X
5. Blondes VS. Brunettes (go brunettes!)
6. Aftermarket auto. transmission Y VS. Aftermarket auto. transmission Z

Matt

Come on Matt...

The sexist comment you made has offended me. Please do not debate the "different, but both equally stunning" types of hair color. :-laf