Ever wonder why all the million-mile trucks used dino oil??

[RoryTek]

That's easy Gary, most CFO's are tight a***s I have drove myself crazy trying to convice those "bean counters" that they will save money. The chief mechcanics want to go full syn. but the front office wont go for it. It's a hard sell but I have secret weapon to win them over.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

That's easy Gary, most CFO's are tight a***s I have drove myself crazy trying to convice those "bean counters" that they will save money. The chief mechcanics want to go full syn. but the front office wont go for it. It's a hard sell but I have secret weapon to win them over.

SO, how many major truck lines HAVE you won over?

 

[amsoilman]

All that's well and good Wayne - but the fact still stands the the VAST MAJORITY of large trucking outfits have NOT switched to the "excellence" of synthetics for some reason.



I'd be interested in hearing your theory on why that is?



This is NOT meant as sarcasm or to degrade synthetics, but purely as a matter of interest - if the stuff is as good as you and *I* think it is, why don't the big outfits *in mass* use it?

Gary,

Statistics show a very small percentage of synthetics are being used in automotive and truck markets. I think the main reason for this is the "upfront" costs, and not looking at the long range benefits. It's the "Bean Counters" that do this in my opinion. I know of a few larger Companies that have changed over to synthetics in their engines, but there are a heck of allot more that have not! Differentials... ... ... ... ... ... ... that's a different story, as the BIG manufacturers of Differentials do use and recommend Synthetic Gear lube. INFACT, they will double their drain interval and warranty if the owner/operator continues to use synthetics!



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[RoryTek]

Gary everything I won over is on the local level, I wont even try to win over national companies, to much BS between field office and the mother ship.
Wayne you hit the nail on the head about long term paybacks. You really got to speak the CFO speak when talking to these guys, use words like ROI and bottom line seem to work.

 

[hammersley]

It's Modern Economic theory -

All that's well and good Wayne - but the fact still stands the the VAST MAJORITY of large trucking outfits have NOT switched to the "excellence" of synthetics for some reason.



I'd be interested in hearing your theory on why that is?



This is NOT meant as sarcasm or to degrade synthetics, but purely as a matter of interest - if the stuff is as good as you and *I* think it is, why don't the big outfits *in mass* use it?

When you present worth future values of dollars - and the bean counters are always trying to get next quarters Profit/Loss statement to be the best - you must minimize unecessary costs that will not bring an IMMEDIATE Monetary benefit! It's the biggest fallacy of the modern economic policy - where short term profits rule! Much better to rebuild later than to spend now... .



NOW what about the supposed increase in fuel economy?



OK let's look at 100,000 miles:



Change Dino at 3,000 and Syn at 5,000.

Dino cost $1. 5/qt= $545 Total for oil (assuming no increase - fat chance)

Synth - using Rotella T Synthetic - at $3. 5/qt - $720 in Oil! That's Only $175!!!



Now if over that period I can increase my fuel mileage 1 tenth of a mile per gallon - say 17. 1 - at $2. 5/gallon now we're down to $100!!!!!!!! Now some are paying a lot less for fuel - but those days are numbered... . EVEN with NO Increase at all - Come On - $175!!!! The cold start alone is worth it - If you plan on keeping her.









http://www.rotella.com/products/rotella_t_synthetic.html

 

[Hohn]

I'd agree. I use synthetics because I give my truck HARD miles. My truck sees a cold start in the morning, runs for 15 min, then gets shut off. Same thing at lunch. Same thing when I go home for the day.



So, my trucks sees 3 cold starts a day, and less than an hour of operation!



Now, factor in the truth that oils are designed to lube properly AT OPERATING TEMP-- not at room temp, or with cold starts.



In my usage profile, synthetics are a good idea, as the reduced thickening at less-than-operating temps goes a long way towards getting things to last.



JLH

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

... THEN. factor into the last few above comments, the fact that most larger trucking outfits "turn over" their tractors at relatively low mileage, and the synthetic long term advantage becomes sorta pointless - much like the typical owner in THIS group that probably puts well under HALF the available Cummins lifespan before trading for a newer one - the assumed long-range protection of the synthetics are of small benefit or concern to an owner who isn't going to keep it all that long anyway...



Better to simply pocket the cost of the synthetics, rather than "preserve" the engine lifespan of the engine just for the benefit of some unknown 2nd or 3rd owner...

 

[RoryTek]

And what about the fuel mileage then. You still get a savings. This is one of those topics where no one will agree. I call it pride in ownership.
The almighty dollar.
Might as well put this one to bed and debate about biodeisel ( oooh now there's concept)

Take call all

 

[Cooker]

And what about the fuel mileage then.

I wish I would have seen some type of fuel mileage increase with synthetics. EVeybody talks about it but it just didn't happen for me and my whole truck is on syn.

 

[hammersley]

The fuel mileage is IMO so

small - that it's to difficult to calculate, That's whi in my example I used an increase of only 1 tenth of a MPG - from 17 to 17. 1.

 

[mhenon]

I wish I would have seen some type of fuel mileage increase with synthetics. EVeybody talks about it but it just didn't happen for me and my whole truck is on syn.

I did for me... . and I keep pretty good records of mileage. I also noticed a drop on engine temp while towing.

Mike

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

The effect of increased MPG can be pretty hard to substantiate or pin down, especially when something like a switch in lubes is done on a relatively new and slow to break in engine like the Cummins.



My MPG has been steadily increasing too - over the last 40,000 miles it has been in steady increase. IF at some point early on, I had switched engine lube brand or type, I suppose I too would be crowing about "increased MPG" due to the lube switch, when actually, it was more like engine and drivetrain loosening up as parts wore in and seated.



The seating in on my '91 truck was still going on out to over 100,000 miles, as displayed by oil analysis...



I'm not saying increases WON'T happen with superior lubes, only that there are significant other effects that might cloud the issue and slew the perceived end result.

 

[Cooker]

The effect of increased MPG can be pretty hard to substantiate or pin down, especially when something like a switch in lubes is done on a relatively new and slow to break in engine like the Cummins

My truck had over 100k on it when I switched. I also log every tank and the MPG's from that tank. I have not done one thing to the truck that I can see has generated any noticable increase in MPG's but I can sure tell you some of the things that have hurt it

 

[Texas Diesel]

100,000 mile body? That reminds me of "Ford owns Cummings" :-laf



We've got nearly 180,000 miles on the 98 with only front end work and a fuel pump. No other problems of any kind. It starts and runs like new, gets 23MPG, no major rattles, just some faded/ peeling paint and hail dents.



Just a thought, perhaps all the million mile trucks last that long because dino oil is good enough :-{}



I have been in several 300,000 - 525,000 mile Dodges, they all seemed to be ok to me.

 

[scotty1]

I ran hot shot rigs for many years. My first truck was a 90 4x2 reg cab 5 spd and I logged 780,000 kilometers. I used 15/40 dino oil and it towed heavy in the mountains most of the time. Heavy to me is over 20K pounds and under 30K pounds... I never once replaced a transmission and never had the engine open. However, it made more financial sense for me to sell them off between 150,000 and 180,000 miles when I could. I had 3 rigs running at all times for several years and rotated them out in that mileage range. I would imagine that city stop and go driving ALL the time would've told a different story.



As for the trucks wrapped around the engine... I had a couple turds. They where simply not put together well... perhaps Friday afternoon trucks. Overall, they stood up real well. The seats were the weakest link and got changed within 80,000 miles from new.



Scotty

 

[pwknapp]

I also ran hot shot on Rotella 15-40 dino, but on a more local basis. Only 80k per year with some 30-50 start-ups per day in Louisiana heat. Truck was between 340-400 hp after it hit 100k. I drove it to make a living and definitely did not baby it. I tried synthetics for a few oil changes and could not justify the initial cost and having to add a $5 qt. every 1000 miles. Dino oil never used more than a qt every 3000. I would spend $15 on dino for 3k or $75 for 5k with the synthetic. I just could not justify the added expense for me in that situation. I did finally lose a crank bearing at over 420k pulling 34,800 lbs up Raton Pass.



With the new motor the truck might see 10-12k per year of no work and all pleasure. I now am seeing all kinds of non engine related failures because it is not being used daily. A/C, heater core, vaccuum pump, 4x4 engagement, starter, ingnition switch, heater controls, etc. I'm a firm believer that daily use keeps all componements working longer.

 

[scotty1]

I did finally lose a crank bearing at over 420k pulling 34,800 lbs up Raton Pass.



QUOTE]



I know Raton Pass very well... that was all part of one of my routes.



I also had noticed the synthetics pushed passed more easily. Maybe because it was a 5W40 instead of 15W40... I tried sythetic in my 01 and in the 04 but I am back with dino again. I change the oil every 10K and the fuel filter too.



Scotty

 

[pwknapp]

Raton Pass. Found out the lower intercooler hose had a slit in it from rubbing on the right fender. Boost gauge was lying bad, and that let off when downshifting from 5th to 4th took it's toll. Never did find the dipstick.



Changed my dino every 5k with filter and the synthetic was RP 15w40.

 

[todt061458]

All true but when talking about big companies and new trucks think about the warranty from the mfg. Will the mfg allow warr coverage with the syn product? I know my K. W. dealer hates syn fluid I think it has something to do with profits from oil changes. the old ways die hard. The new tighter hotter engines might dictate syn oil in the future?but who knows or recycle costs mite help to promote longer time between oil changes as a enonimic and bottom line improver. Less oil changes = less used oil = less disposable costs= less mechanic cost ect. The longer the truck stays on the road the more profit the company can make from the drivers sweat the happier the CEO,CFO and stock holders are. so why not go syn it looks good on paper? I know as a O/O I spend less down time changing my oil using AMSOIL than with dyno oil more time on the road means more profits for me. Why would it be any different for a big company? just a different scale of economics larger vs smaller company's.

 

[Texas Diesel]

I asked a couple of truckers what oil they ran and how often they drained and refilled it.



One ran Rotella T 30W the other ran another (citgo?).



The one with Rotella changed it at 1,000,000 miles and the filters (primary & secondary) and some wierd interval (read: long time). The one ran 2,000,000 between overhauls. WOW.



A mine I used to deal with had onsite power generators. Big CAT diesels, 250kw 3 phase units. They ran RotellaT 30W and 2500 hour (!) oil & filter changes. 2500 hours is like 90,000 miles.



Guess even owner/operators have varying opinions.



One other thing I noticed was the turbos were clear coated like ours are and none showed any yellowing from heat. I wonder what EGT's the OTR trucks run.