Excessive Rear Tire Wear

[MCopenhaver]

I know those probably not anything to do with a second gen truck but I don't know where else to post this and since I have a 2002 I thought I'd start here.
My question is why I'm seeing excessive wear on both the inside and outside edges of my tires on the rear of my truck. Now I know immediately folks are going to start saying it's because I've under inflated my tires but here's the thing. By the numbers that's just not the case I believe. I'm towing a 11,000 lb fifth wheel with about 1600 lb of tongue weight on a gooseneck type hitch. This should be well within the specs of this truck to carry and I have E range Michelin tires on the rear of my truck inflated to the prescribed 80 psi. So by all accounts this should be quite adequate. But over the course of a 7,000 mile trip out west I've completely taken the outer edges off both tires. Any ideas?

 

[AH64ID]

What size are the tires? What size are the wheels?

 

[MCopenhaver]

Right, fair question. Standard 16" wheels. Michelin LTX 265/75 tires which are rated at 3400# at 80 psi

 

[SnoKing]

Maybe you need a new tire pressure gauge????

 

[AH64ID]

Right, fair question. Standard 16" wheels. Michelin LTX 265/75 tires which are rated at 3400# at 80 psi

If anything that tire is on the wide side for the wheels, which causes the center to wear faster.

Underinflation is still my first guess, as 80 psi seems too much for that load and combined with the wheel width should have accelerated center tread wear.

 

[petersonj]

Right, fair question. Standard 16" wheels. Michelin LTX 265/75 tires which are rated at 3400# at 80 psi

Are your tires a Defender LTX 265/75 or just an LTX 265/75? There is a reason I ask, but I won't elaborate - unless it is relevant.

- John

 

[GAmes]

Perhaps I missed it, but is this a 2500 or a 3500 dually? Have you actually weighed the truck? An 11,000 pound 5er would typically be in the 2000-2200 pound range.

 

[MCopenhaver]

Are your tires a Defender LTX 265/75 or just an LTX 265/75? There is a reason I ask, but I won't elaborate - unless it is relevant.

- John

Yes they are Defender LTX

 

[MCopenhaver]

Perhaps I missed it, but is this a 2500 or a 3500 dually? Have you actually weighed the truck? An 11,000 pound 5er would typically be in the 2000-2200 pound range.

I have 2500. 1600 spec is from manufacturer but even at 2000 I should be ok per truck specs. I weighed it all some time ago but not recently.

 

[Cummins12V98]

Are they E or D rated tires? Some like Les Schwab like to do the switcharoo and throw on a D tire.

 

[AH64ID]

I have 2500. 1600 spec is from manufacturer but even at 2000 I should be ok per truck specs. I weighed it all some time ago but not recently.

Manufacturer specs are often on the low side, very low.

I would hit a scale and see what your rear axle weight is, and then inflate according to a load and inflation chart.

I use this chart often.

https://www.toyotires.com/media/2125/application_of_load_inflation_tables_20170203.pdf

 

[petersonj]

Yes they are Defender LTX

I am not sure whether or not the following is relevant.

I quit buying Michelin tires for my truck because of a problem with two sets of Michelin LTX 265/76R16 Load E 70,000 mile rated tires that each set lasted for 55,000 miles. The problem with both sets of tires (especially the last set) matched your symptoms of tire wear on the rear tires, probably because I towed more with the last set. I went to great effort documenting proper tire pressure on each axle for the load I was carrying. While a tire was located on the rear axle, the tires wore more on both edges than the middle. I also checked and rechecked alignment.

I have owned my truck since new. The current odometer reading is 370,000 miles. My truck came with Michelin tires when new. Can't remember the exact tire model - they lasted for 60,000 miles with relatively even tread wear.

I replaced the tires with Michelin LTX 265/76R16 Load E 70,000 tires. They lasted for 74,000 miles with even tread wear. I replaced with same tire. They lasted for 55,000 miles with uneven tread wear. Michelin credited me $31.00 per tire for premature tire wear. I replaced with the same tire again, this time closely monitoring and documenting tire inflation relative to axle weight. These tires wore on both outside edges, especially while on the rear towing with heavier loads. They lasted for 55,000 miles.

Now, here is the interesting part. I have purchased all of my truck tires from Discount Tire (formally America's Tire), After the second set of tires lasting only 55,000 miles with abnormal tread wear, a Discount Tire representative told me that Michelin would not give me a credit for the shortage of miles, but Discount Tire would honor the shortage. I again received a credit for $31.00 per tire. The representative said that Discount tire had sold thousands of this specific tire over the years and had reported the unusual tread wear of the LTX tire to Michelin (consequently, the credit adjustment for the first set by Michelin). By the time the second set wore out prematurely with unusual wear pattern, Michelin had recognized a flaw in manufacturing the tire. Michelin discontinued the tire and came out with the Defender LTX tire. I elected to not purchase the Michelin Defender tire. I instead went with Yokohama's. They lasted their rated miles with no uneven tire wear with towing several loads for hundreds of miles at a time, some being the heaviest loads I have towed (combined weight of 19,000 to 21,000 lbs).

So, it makes me wonder if their is a problem with the Defender truck tire..., maybe, maybe not.

I edited this post a few minutes ago because I wanted to add that I have always been a fan of Michelin tires. However, what I experienced with the LTX tire has made me question my loyalty to Michelin. If I wouldn't have used the same tire for almost 200,000 miles I would have never known about the unusual tread wear issues with the LTX tire. I am sure that Michelin continues to manufacture excellent tires, but I did not have enough faith in this particular LTX tire to put another set on the truck.

- John

 

[MCopenhaver]

Are they E or D rated tires? Some like Les Schwab like to do the switcharoo and throw on a D tire.

Definitely E rated

 

[Matt42]

This is all astonishingly weird. My first thought was underinflation and to try a different tire gauge. I am running a set of the older LTX tires (in LT 245/75 16E) on my truck now, but it doesn't get driven enough to show odd wear.

I am reminded of a know-it-all at work years ago that really knew nothing. While he was preparing a 15 passenger van for a colleague to take on a road trip, pulling a small utility trailer, he checked tire pressure in the LT245/75 16E tires. The van and trailer were filled with equipment and filled three-ring notebooks. The tires had been inflated to (I think) 70 PSI, as per the door sticker. He thought that was too high because they might explode at that pressure. So he dropped them all to 35 PSI. Sure enough, the right rear separated.

 

[Shelby Griggs]

I too run Michelins on similar truck. I have noticed I rarely go the miles, but so far Michelin and/or vendor (used to be Costco, now discount Titres) has made good, especially Discount Tires if you purchase the extended warranty. I have now had two sets replaced by Discount Tire and they remarked the 2nd set wasn't the first, so I may be on a blacklist there! The last set replaced was due to sidewall cracking, not tread wear.

I still like Michlien and have never had another brand on my 2001 in 332K, but I do think Michelin has a difficult time making warranty miles, hopefully that improves as they continue to upgrade LTX tires.

 

[MCopenhaver]

Appreciate all responses and would like to hear more input. For record I did bit more research and wanted to provide bit more details as to why I'm concerned. Also would like to state that I have always been very satisfied with Michelin tires on all my cars and my truck and willing to pay a bit of a premium for them. But they are very expensive if I can't get any better wear from them then what I have experienced.

I wanted to confirm all the numbers I had presented so far so I did have my truck and trailer weighted at local truck stop and here are results.

First again what I have:
2002 RAM 2500 Diesel (of course) 4WD 6 Speed Manual 4:10 Extended bed w/no suspension mods
Michelin LTX Defender 265/75/16 E rated on stock wheels running 80psi rear and 72psi front
Tires had even and modest wear before our trip
Tires had roughly 29k miles before and I put roughly 6500 miles on our trip west
Per my research truck is rated at GVWR 8800 and rear axle GAWR at 6080
Tires are rated at 3400 at 80psi
Trailer is a Reflection 29RS fifth wheel with Reese 16K Goosebox
Trailer is rated GVWR 11000 with stated hitch weight of 1538 (assume dry)
Trailer has two 5200 Dexter axles also with 225/16 E rated tires

Truck Front Axle w/trailer 4440 w/o trailer 4300
Note that is about 100# lighter with trailer hitch weight on rear axle
Truck Rear Axle w/trailer 4980 w/o trailer 2960
Note trailer added 2020
Truck had nothing in bed but had full fuel tank
Trailer Axle 8500 (add 2020 on truck for total of 10520 gross weight)
Trailer was almost 'full' but may carry few hundred pounds more at times, so almost at max cap

With above it appears I had 2020# of hitch weight on the truck but again the total is under 5000# on rear axle which should be well within the limits for both the truck itself and the tires. So WHY did loose most all the tread on the outer edges of the rear tires over 6500 miles? Middle three ribs had minimal wear of ~ 1/32 from start of trip while outer edges lost more like 4/32nd and I'm down to 5/32nd now, almost to wear bars. Front tires had minimal wear also btw. Total mileage on tires now is about 35000. If anything I had the rear tires over inflated at 80psi imo and should have seen more wear in middle section of the tire.

So what am I missing? Is this a problem with the tires, or something else? While, as I stated before, I have always been a fan of Michelin tires, I am inclined to try something else with the next replacement......

 

[GAmes]

I've never pulled a 5er or a gooseneck trailer with a single rear wheel so anyone who has can call BS on me if they feel the need. I'm thinking lateral forces in turns are wearing the tires out. Maybe you could mount a camera to moniter the tires and go for a drive, then hook up the trailer and drive some more, then compare. If there is more flex in the new style (I have them too) it could account for the wear.

 

[AH64ID]

I've never pulled a 5er or a gooseneck trailer with a single rear wheel so anyone who has can call BS on me if they feel the need. I'm thinking lateral forces in turns are wearing the tires out. Maybe you could mount a camera to moniter the tires and go for a drive, then hook up the trailer and drive some more, then compare. If there is more flex in the new style (I have them too) it could account for the wear.

I can’t imagine the lateral forces in turns being enough to roll a tire on its edge to the point it’s wearing only the outside of the tire.

I’ve also never noticed it happening with my SRW.

 

[Cummins12V98]

Pics would be nice.

 

[SnoKing]

I towed a 29' 5th wheel for 11 years with a 2001.5 2500 4x4 with weights a little more than yours. Two loops through Western States, local trips in Washington and 8 round trips from NW Wa to Az. Never saw an issue like you are seeing. If you lost both outer sides of the tires and not the center that is an under inflation issue. That is why I asked if you tire pressure gauge was faulty.