Excursion + Cummins 12 valve + Allison 1000

[MMcCallie]

After 2 years of driving the PSD Y2K Ex 4x4, i think i've finally settled on a vehicle. It now has over 120k on it, & rides like a tank. Hopefully a couple inches of lift can cure the bump stop jouncing. There are so many things to still be fixed on this truck. But i think the core of this truck is still the right fit for me. I'm sick of getting terrible mileage & having to fix electrical things on this 7. 3.



So, i've joined the TDR just to get help for this project. I have a '94 Cummins 12 valve stored in a Kentucky warehouse. I had an Allison 1000 but sold it a couple years ago because no one seemed to know how to make the electronics work. I'm now hunting for Allisons again after seeing others make it happen.



I haven't even helped anyone do an engine swap in a decade. All i have is a tin building with a gravel floor as a shop in MO. A mig, drill, grinder, one floor jack & a couple jack stands. I'm a fearless fabricator as i used to build Jeeps, but i'm hoping i'm not completely over my head.



Has anyone put a Cummins into a Superduty? I'm unfamiliar with the 6bt, but i know the Cummins part will be simple. I have no idea what its gonna be like trying to make my key start that engine, have my buttons engage cruise control, run the gridheaters, hook up gauges, etc. Does anyone know if someone has an electronics kit for a 2000 Superduty/Cummins 12 valve swap.



What about the Allison? Anyone know which belhousing will fit the best? Which one does Ford use in the F-650 5. 9/Allison trucks? Anyone know if there is an adapter so i can bolt my stock transfer case up to the Allison? Does anyone know what it takes to get that 6th gear out of the Allison?



I know about Ford Cummins & have talked to a couple others like Ken Kraus & Brayden who are the most knowledgeable & experienced folks i could find. Neither has done exactly what i'm attempting so i'm still wide open for suggestions.



My Excursion gets 11 mpg city on B5. I'm told i could expect 22 hwy with the Cummins. I figure i'll be losing a very noticeable amount of power, but i know how easily that can be up for with a fuel plate & injectors. The fuel economy is a huge incentive, though it will take many years to cover the cost of the conversion.



I had been planning to convert the PSD to WVO using the Vegistroke kit this summer. I was thinking i'd build a midship tank, but i don't know how much room the Allison will take up if i do this conversion. Not sure it would be bigger than my 44 gallon axle-aft tank.



Would i have to lose the frame mounted electric fuel pump for the Cummins? If so, is the stock PSD pump strong enough to move WVO? It would be handy if it could just stay there. I'd like to run the #2 & WVO on completely separate fuel systems like the Vegistroke kit. His kit switches over automatically by fuel pressure, once the WVO has heated up. I really like the idea of a second system if one of my hand made systems goes south.



Anyone looking for a strong 7. 3/4R100? Anyone know what its all worth? Please, throw in your 2 cents. I'm almost dead set on this project. Even though i don't have the funds or the knowledge as of yet. I just want simple, mechanical, & good fuel economy.

 

[ISh]

I am going to do the same thing. 2002 excursion 4x4 is going to get the 12v but using a built 47re to the ford transfer case.

 

[MMcCallie]

Awesome! Have you figured out how to hook up all of the electronics? What about an adapter to the Ford t-case? Will you go with X-code springs or a lift? Are you doing it all yourself or buying motor mounts & brackets, etc?

 

[guava]

I'll be watching this closely. Those V10's have got to be dropping in value fast.

 

[MMcCallie]

Yes, they are much cheaper. Its not uncommon to find a gas powered Excursion going for $10,000. The lowest i've seen a PSD is mid teens. Most of them are still fetching over $20k.

 

[ISh]

I am going to buy the motor mounts and use a standalone computer for the 47re. I believe the adapter for the t-case is just a round one with a coupler. The electronics isn't that big of a deal - grid heaters on a push button, dodge alternator changed to a single wire. Tach signal - machine two more slots in the balancer. Relay for fuel soleniod. That's it from the top of my head.

 

[GOT-Torque]

Where you located in MO?

 

[MMcCallie]

My folks live on a farm in Grubville, about an hour & a half southwest of St. Louis. Its out in the country. That's where i'm heading this summer, i'm in Boston until then. Not much of a shop, but its the only place i can work on vehicles.



Ken told me that the Dodge alternator will fry the Ford electronics due to extreme fluxuation. Better to make brackets & run the Ford alternator & a/c compressor. The Ford will be internally regulated.

 

[MMcCallie]

This may sound crazy, but has anyone ever tried mounting the Cummins directly to the frame? I had this done on a Scrambler with a TBI 350. World of difference between the diesel & vaddy motor, but would it work? I don't like the looks of those flat motor mounts. Will the donut shaped mounts fit? What about adapting the stock Powerstroke mounts?



Do most folks use the Dodge/Cummins computer or go wireless? If i run the Allison 1000, will the computer be the best idea to give engine load or TPS to the transmission's computer? Can i power the Cummins PCM with my alternator? Will that be an easier way to hook up my gauges?

 

[MMcCallie]

This shows how little i know about the Cummins, but is the P7100 the only pump it needs, or is an electric puller or pusher in the tank also needed? I was hoping not so i could use my frame mounted pump to feed WVO to the engine. Guess i'd better research how most Cummins guys do that. Maybe a valve using the inline pump, just selecting a tank?



Does a momentary button for grid heaters have to be turned on & off each time you turn the truck on or off? I'm hoping for something simpler so no explinations are needed for anyone else to drive it.



Will an electric fan suffice for a Cummins? I saw one that's rated for something like 6,000 cfm. Is that not enough wind?

 

[BIG C]

I put a 12V in my 1999 F350 last summer. I used a NV5600 to the ford NV273 with a diffrent input shaft. I wanted a stick but thought about using the 4R100 or the 47RH. They all have there pros and cons. Mine was a V10 with 4R100. All gauges work except the tach. I just havent got around to hooking it up. I used pushbutton grid heaters and push button ignition activated with the key. Only reall concern is the clearance between the turbo and heater box on the firewall. Its tight but doable. I love driving this truck and I wouldnt have it any other way.

 

[Mad Bomber]

IIRC PDR did this

 

[MMcCallie]

Hey BIG C,

I take it you did the whole thing yourself? How much should i expect to spend in little things just to drop the engine in, hear it run, & read some gauges? Do fuel lines, steering, radiator, intercooler, etc take modifications? Did you make your own engine mounts? Can you help answer any more of my previous questions about the computer stuff, fuel pump, etc?

How many miles per gallon is the Cummins giving you? I used to have a '73 Bronco. Really miss it. 302 & 3 spd stick, Dana 20, Dana 44/9". Bad clutch, manual drum brakes, only one working gas tank, tightest turning radius ever! It was a fun little rig.

Thanks,

Matt

 

[BIG C]

Yes I did the whole thing myself. Complete engine rebuild and engine swap. The guages are simple to hook up. Just splice your ford guages to the cummins senders. The only thing is the tach requires you to modify the harmonic balancer and use a sending unit from an older ford diesel. I made my own motor mounts based off the newer mounts that they use in the new dodges instead of the older 12V dodge style. Mine was a gasser so I had to replace the fuel pump/sender with a diesel specific unit. Right now the cummins lift pump is the only pump that I run. I do not have an electric pump. That could change soon but only for performance reasons. If I were you I would keep your 4R100 and use that transmission. You would need a baumanator controller and an adpater plate. I plan to run a mix of WVO and diesel as soon as it warms back up. The mechanical injection is a perfect candidate for the WVO. As far as cost... . I never kept track. I guess whatever you plan for just double it. That way you wont be nickle and dimed to death and you will do it right instead of cheapin out on it and then regretting it later. Mileage... maybe 20, but I dont keep much track because this truck is too much fun to drive. Good Luck!!!

 

[Cooker]

Big C,

It sounds like your conversion really turned out great. We will have to get together one of these days so I can see what a Cummins looks like stuffed under the hood of a SD.

 

[MMcCallie]

Hi Big C,

I'm really interested in your truck. Can you post some pics on this thread or send some via email? Sounds like you didn't use the Cummins computer at all, right? Just spliced Ford/Cummins wires directly? That certainly sounds simpler. I'm just wondering about gauges & functions like water in fuel, glow plugs/grid heater, & TPS or engine load for an Allison. What did you do with the Ford computer? Was yours mounted in the cab by behind the parking brake pedal like mine? I'm thinking nothing else in the truck will need it, right?



I hear your advice about the 4R100. Mine has been on its way out for almost a year. A new torque converter is holding it together for now. Previous temps were over 210 degrees farenheit. Hasn't gone over 170 ish since. A BTS is $4,000. The adapter plate several hundred, the stand alone computer at least $400. I'm looking at close to $6,000 in transmission alone to stay with just the 4 speed.



I'm figuring a good $1,500 in parts from Allison for their shift kits & computer with wiring. I can get a transmission for near a grand. Torque converter about $1,300. Shift kit. With the right belhousing, no adapter should be needed there. Will need an adapter in back to the torque converter though.



So it looks like almost as much for the Allison but i'd have a 6 speed Allison in the end instead of the 4R100. I don't know yet. Have to hear more from the people who've done it.



If i don't need my electric fuel pump to run the Cummins, that should solve my WVO pump querry right there. I wonder if it would otherwise be bad to shove that much pressure into the P7100. Doesn't it only shoot about 20 psi? The PSD is much higher.



I'm really hoping the Cummins can net me better mileage. Half a 44 gallon tank & i haven't quite gone 200 miles yet. AMSOIL, huge open air filter, SCMT, timing advanced, ICPs, water/methanol injection, cold weather, all this & no change in fuel economy.

 

[6BT-Dakota]

I know this doesnt have anything to do w/ this Ford Cummins thread but im in the process and 2/3 done with transplanting a 6BT into a 97 Dakota.

 

[Cooker]

I know this doesnt have anything to do w/ this Ford Cummins thread

So start a new thread



I'm sure there will a ton of guys interested in hearing about your buildup. I would be curious to hear what you did with the IC and radiator. The only Dakota I seen with a Cummins (a blue one out of Garmon's shop IIRC) has the RAD and IC stuffed into the bed.

 

[MMcCallie]

Yes, definitely put up a thread. I'm interested in a Cummins going into anything. I'm just hoping more of my questions can be explored here about my plans for a 12 valve & Allison 1000 in the Ex. I'm on the verge of doing something to correct the horrible suspension Ford put under these trucks.

 

[6BT-Dakota]

I dont think I want to start a thread right now but if you would like to see pictures just drop me a e-mail and I will send them to you.



here is a tdr link to a picture of the truck that was taken prior to ripping it all apart for the 6BT conversion.



http://tdr1.com/forums/showthread.p...4&page=10&pp=15



If you have any questions about the conversion please feel free to e-mail me also:



-- email address removed --



Here is another one of my posts that will tell you a little about the truck:1997 Dodge Dakota Extended Cab that I purchased brand new from Scranton Dodge. I owned this trrck for aprox. 3 years when I needed more. My first investment was the 5 1/2" tuff-country lift which after 2 sets of ball joints ans 1 set of tie rods enough was enough. In Feburary of 2002 my friend Eric and I pulled my Dakota riding on a 5 1/2" lift and 33" tires into the garage and began the process of installing a Dana 60 front axle and a Sterling (I dont like to say the "F" word) rear axle out of a 88 F-350 which was completed in July of 2002 and rolled out on a set of 35" BFG All-Terrains. In May of 2003 I decided w/ a little bit of pressure to go from 35's to 38"'s so w/ a little bit more lift and a loaner set of tires and wheels from a friend Guy I was the only Dakota I had ever seen riding around on 38's except for the one Petersons did but that doesnt count because they hava unlimited budget $$$$. After riding with the 4. 10 gears and 318 c. i. engine ans seeing all of my close friends w/ their diesels I posed the question to Eric "Do you think we could stuff a Cummins under the hood of my Dakota" and his answer was "I dont see why not" soo that brings me to where I am right now. We are aprox 65%-75% done. It should have between 425-500 Hp and 900-1000 ft/lb of torque when it is done. I am going to try to post some pictures of it but like I said im new to the TDR thing and not sure how to post pictures yet but I will learn. If any of you want to see som pictures just e-mail me.