Exhaust Brake Price Increase

[dan.poitras]

I agree with the compressed air version being more practical.

But as I understand it the vacuum system doesn't actuate quite as agressively

 

[Carlton Bale]

Originally posted by Prairie Dog

So Carlton, can you tell me why an E-brake on a brand new Kenworth w/8. 3 cummins is only $600. 00?

Since I work on the Cummins engineering side, I'm not really qualified to address pricing questions. Having made that disclaimer, I can tell you that the exhaust brake on an ISC engine is operated by compressed air and the engine is already equipped with an air compressor from the factory to operate the service brakes. So when the exhaust brake option is added to a new Kenworth, it is for the brake only. It does not include the cost of the air compressor (which is expensive).



The Ram brake kit not only includes the brake but it also includes the vacuum pump, bracket, pulley, belt, wiring harness, vacuum solenoid, brake switch, etc. All of these items add cost.



Also, I believe Kenworth offers this as a factory-installed option, with is a different category than an aftermarket-installed brake like the Ram has. It's sort of an apple and oranges comparison between these two categories.

 

[Carlton Bale]

Originally posted by nickleinonen

and why didn't they make it compressed air operated? if it was a HD air compressor included in that exhaust brake kit, it would be a good deal [put in a 5 gal tank and you have a multi use compressor. ] but vacuum...

I agree, a heavy duty air compressor would be a nice addition to the truck, but it would add more cost than a vacuum pump. We looked at lower-cost electric air compressors but durability was a concern. The vacuum pump turned out to be the lowest cost and most reliable option.

 

[Task125]

Thanks for answering these ? carlton,

It makes it a little easier to swallow when you get answers,rather than the BS story you usually get from the stealer. Mike

 

[jdiebold]

It is real nice getting reliable information right from the horses mouth, so to speak. I know that there are questions that I would like to have answered from both Cummins and DC. It would be nice if there was a person from each that could give us straight answers. Maybe, if we asked nice, Carlton would give us a hand with this from the Cummins side?

How about an "ask the expert" section on the TDR Form?



JD

 

[David Muench]

An ask the expert section would be pretty neat. . But the question burning in my mind for Carlton is. . Are you here "on your own free time", or does Cummins know and sanction you being here?



Just curious. .

 

[Posm]

Don't get to excited about the price.



The $1325. 00 price is list price. The dealers that are so mad they could spit could cut into their margins and "split the pain" with the customer. Some of the tried and true TDR suppliers that have been selling the old brakes for about $575. 00 should be able to sell the new brake for under $1000. 00. I would guess that dealers get a 35% to 40% discount on parts off of list. Knowing that you can figure they pay from $800. 00 to $875. 00 for the E-brake kits. If they put it on a weekly stock order they probably have no freight costs.



If you have to have one in the next month or so expect to pay list price for it. If you wait a couple of months, you will probalbly save several hundred dollars.

 

[Carlton Bale]

Originally posted by David Muench

An ask the expert section would be pretty neat. . But the question burning in my mind for Carlton is. . Are you here "on your own free time", or does Cummins know and sanction you being here?

David, at this point, you can consider my participation to be official. I'd be more than happy to participate in an "ask the expert" section for exhaust brakes.

 

[David Muench]

Excellent. Welcome.

 

[Task125]

WOW ,I did not know that big brother was watching.

I think it's good that cummins or dodge actually care about what we are saying or doing.

 

[Fireman]

Task125,



To a point, to a point.

 

[Fireman]

Funny story

Went to the dealer yesterday to have some fun. Went to the parts counter and Mac, my usual parts man, was at lunch but the other partsman was in. He is young, energetic, and eager to show what he knows so I told him that I had ordered an e-brake and wondered when it might come in. He looked and looked and couldn't find my order, then he said "they have changed the part#". He read some more, " due to quality concerns..... an increase in price... ... all orders have been cancled" He turned and explained it to me as if I hadn't heard a word he read, then turned back to the computer, pulled up the next page and shouted," HOLY &@$%**% you aint gonna like this!" "What?", I replied with a grin. "that thing is gonna cost $1325. ! That's what" At this point I could hardley keep a straight face. Then he added "I guess those other two guys aren't gonna want one either. " I guess you had to be there, and see the shock and dismay on his face:-laf :-laf :-laf Sure made me feel better.



Fireman

 

[Big MAK]

Wow! Super Nice to see you here Carlton and in a more-or-less official role too! After reading the precise reasons for the price increase I'm not nearly as p. o. 'd myself.



I'll inquire with the leadership (Robin) about getting an "ask the expert" section going. Would you be able to participate with each engine? ISB, B, etc. ?



Any chance you're the "Cummins Powermaster" when questions are posed to the Cummins website?



[I'll echo these ? to a P. M. ]

 

[Carlton Bale]

I would be interested in participating in a special "ask the expert" topic as long as we could limit it to exhaust brakes. We can discuss this more via PM.

 

[DIESELMAN]

Fireman and all -



I had even more fun... . was in Phoenix and decided to stop and harrass the service guy at a dealer I already avoid. Regarding the part number for the Brake, I already had word of the price change, but didn't know how much.



I gave him the old number, he rattled around and gave me the new number, and price, and WITHOUT PROMPTING, went on to justify the price and say that "You know, the new valve train actuator is very complex, and I think it has a new valve cover..... It's a real 'Jake Brake' now I think..... Just like the one in the Dura Max... . Oh, and as a retarder or something on the front gear train..... "



Stupid, Stupid, STUPID!!!



He was still rambling on as I backed quietly out the door!



You know it was pay day and they still gave this idiot a check, unbelievable!



BTW..... I towed 18,500+ ( Steel Building and equipment on a 26' Trailer ) for a GCVW of 25900lbs for 50 miles Thursday, Results,,

 

[Mopar_Mudder]

Originally posted by DIESELMAN





BTW..... I towed 18,500+ ( Steel Building and equipment on a 26' Trailer ) for a GCVW of 25900lbs for 50 miles Thursday, Results,,

So how about some more detail on that pull. Like how did it feel, fell in control? Would you tow that same amount say 5000 miles round trip That is about the same weight that I want to pull out to CA and back, that is why I ask.

 

[CROW]

Now this could get interesting. The info from DC I have showed the exhaust brake to be $799. I received the $500 discount for commercial customers, included the remaining $299 in the purchase price. The dealer has been "paid" for the brake. Now what, I understand the dilemma this may put the dealer in since the cost of the brake went up, but also understand that the dealer has already been paid in full for the brake at the price DC quoted. Maybe this is an opportunity for DC to show both me and the dealer how "understanding" they are. Either way it goes, suspect that the dealer and I will work out a solution satisfactory to both of us.

 

[CROW]

Forgot to ask in the previous post. How much will the exhaust brake aid warm up in the 2003 engines? Takes a long time to warm up that big hunk of metal and all that coolant.

 

[DIESELMAN]

Bgreener -

. Except it had a Pintle hook on my Ball Over adapter (BackHoe Trailer). Sure could have used the exhaust brake, first 6 miles all down hill in 4WD for control. Not much for a towing sample but its the heaviest weight I've ever pulled without getting a Medium truck for the day. On the long 3% it still didn't get too big a head of steam and felt comfortable at 70. Plenty of brakes.



If I could get a Low Boy 5ver flat without spread axles for a one way to Alaska this June I'd tow 15,000 from Flagstaff to Fairbanks. Anyone need a trailer delivery?



Of course this is a post for the Towing Forum, but I wonder what rules I have to follow for a Commercially registered privately operated truck towing an obviously commercial load through Canadia??

 

[Carlton Bale]

Originally posted by CROW

Forgot to ask in the previous post. How much will the exhaust brake aid warm up in the 2003 engines? Takes a long time to warm up that big hunk of metal and all that coolant.

To help with warm-up, the engine goes into a high-idle mode when started if coolant temperature is below some level (I can't remember the specifics, some where around 30 degrees F). The engine will stay in this high idle mode until the brake, accelerator, or clutch pedal are pressed or until coolant reached some high set point.



The brake enhances this fast idel warm-up feature, but I can't answer your question as to exactly how much it improves warms-up. You will notice a difference.