Exhaust Brake Re-Wire

[Rockranch]

Gentlemen,



I need some advice and was hoping that the more experienced heads could lend a hand. If this is in the wrong forum, please move it to the appropriate forum.



About 1 1/2 years ago I purchased, and installed an exhaust brake from a major manufacturer. I won't name names (but we all keep our money in one), but it has not worked correctly, consistently, from day one. The customer service department was of no help and they refused to take a return. The easy thing to do would be to buy a new one from Pacbrake, but I cannot afford to do that. I was on a road trip last week, not using my EB and had a thought. I'd like to run it past you all and see what you think.



I am about to install a Kilby OBA system. My thought for the EB was to use the air from the OBA, run through the existing solenoid from the EB system. That solenoid would be wired into the switch I have been using to activate the EB. The air would then go from the OBA, through the solenoid to the EB. The only control on the system would be the activation switch. I know it would not be perfect, but at least it would work. If I want it to warm up the engine, I turn it on. If I want to slow the truck down I turn it on. I stay away from the ECM and control the EB completely manually.



Does anyone see any problems, potential for damage, or any thing else I may be missing?



Thank you,

Larry

 

[HBarlow]

This is not the type of opinion you asked for buy my opinion is you should use the Banks eb as decoration on your dumpster instead of spending more money and creating more complex and trouble prone combinations that will be unsatisfactory at best and may cause other problems at worst.

With careful shopping you can find a brand name Jacobs or PacBrake exhaust brake that will function as an exhaust brake without all the extra garbage.

 

[Ram4Sam]

Gentlemen,



I need some advice and was hoping that the more experienced heads could lend a hand. If this is in the wrong forum, please move it to the appropriate forum.



About 1 1/2 years ago I purchased, and installed an exhaust brake from a major manufacturer. I won't name names (but we all keep our money in one), but it has not worked correctly, consistently, from day one. The customer service department was of no help and they refused to take a return. The easy thing to do would be to buy a new one from Pacbrake, but I cannot afford to do that. I was on a road trip last week, not using my EB and had a thought. I'd like to run it past you all and see what you think.



I am about to install a Kilby OBA system. My thought for the EB was to use the air from the OBA, run through the existing solenoid from the EB system. That solenoid would be wired into the switch I have been using to activate the EB. The air would then go from the OBA, through the solenoid to the EB. The only control on the system would be the activation switch. I know it would not be perfect, but at least it would work. If I want it to warm up the engine, I turn it on. If I want to slow the truck down I turn it on. I stay away from the ECM and control the EB completely manually.



Does anyone see any problems, potential for damage, or any thing else I may be missing?



Thank you,

Larry

I wouldn't throw it in the dumpster just yet, the brake itself is probably just fine. I didn't want to bother with micro switches, ecm hookups, etc. Mine is wired direct to a two speed rearend switch on the stick and has worked fine for over ten years. No reason it won't work for you.



Sam

 

[Rockranch]

Harvey,



I knew I could count on you to provide a simple and entertaining solution to a complex and frustrating problem. Thanks for not disappointing.



Actually, what I am proposing is similiar to what Ram4Sam is using. The Kilby is going on anyway. I would eliminate all the Banks controller BS and simply activate the brake (which seems to work fine, when it activates) with a simple switch to control the solenoid.



Thanks for the idea, though.

 

[ENafziger]

My only suggestion would be to run it through a limit switch on the throttle linkage somewhere, such that the exhaust brake comes on automatically when the peddle is lifted.

--Eric

 

[AH64ID]

Banks uses vacuum, so the OBA won't do a thing.

What doesn't work?

 

[Rockranch]

AH64ID,

Maybe the ones you have seen, but mine came with a small air compressor. What doesn't work is all the electronic crap that is supposed to tell the thing when I have released the accel pedal. I have adjusted the appropriate screw to the appropriate settings several times. It will work for about 5 minutes and then quit working. Sometimes, if I hold my foot on the accel. pedal just right, I can get it to come on, but I shouldn't have to do that.

Thanks.

 

[AH64ID]

If this is the 03 in your signature you shouldn't have to have anything on the accelerator pedal the ECM is designed to operate an exhaust brake.

This Jacobs manual will show you how to wire it so you let the ECM do what its programmed for.

http://www.jacobsvehiclesystems.com/files/support/docs-pdfs/32414 E2_Screen.pdf

 

[Rockranch]

Thank you. That looks simple enough that even I might be able to do it.

 

[Allnew2Me]

The second Gen trucks used vacuum and the early third Gen trucks did away with the vacuum pump which is why your brake came with a compressor. The BanksBrake itself is a very stout unit and works very well and will last for a long time, mine is going on 10 years with not so much as a hint of trouble. The electronic controller however, does seem to have a limited life and mine went out just last year.

The issue you have to be concerned with is leaving the brake on while you are also accelerating, not good. The controller senses fueling and releases the brake so this isn't a problem. If you control it manually you have to remember to turn it off.

A better approach would be to keep the brake and buy an aftermarket controller. I am using the BD Torqlock unit and it works great and has other features you may like. If you don't want to spend the money on a controller, then at least install a microswitch either on the throttle linkage or the fuel pedal so that the brake disengages when you fuel. Issue 71 of the TDR has a good article on exhaust brakes and how they work.

 

[AH64ID]

I had never noticed that the 03-04 brake was pressure and the 04. 5+ is vacuum until this thread... Wonder why they switched??

Either way the ECM will do a great job controlling it with out any issues.

 

[CKelley1]

the vacuum banks was old technology like the jacobs, neither one brakes worth a darn. the pac and bd hold true 60 lbs back pressure at all rpm and altitude. because of patent infringement issues the bd and pac work entirely different than each other. banks somehow figured a way around the patent for the air one. you need to add a diode to protect the ecm if you use the ecm diagram for the jacobs. pm me your email and i will send you a schematic of how to wire it up. on one install i forgot to order the two speed switch and temporarily connected a toggle switch up where it set between my index finger and thumb, i liked it so much i changed my other trucks to it. #ad
#ad

 

[AH64ID]

While the Jake/Banks is not variable the max retarding power is the same for all the brakes. Lower rpm braking is a little lower, but above 2400-2500 rpms they are all equal.

What is the diode needed for? The PIN on the ECM should just open a relay, is there a diode built in on the models that use the ECM?

 

[Allnew2Me]

the vacuum banks was old technology like the jacobs, neither one brakes worth a darn





I will have to disagree with this statement, as the BanksBrake works very well. The activation cylinder is 3" in diameter and it engages very quickly and is very effective at retarding the speed of the truck. It is true that some of the newer brakes will give better performance at lower RPM, but my BanksBrake has never given me a bit of trouble (the exception being the electronic part) and it has 90K on it. Most of the need for braking is at higher RPM anyway and the slight advantage with the variable brakes can be rendered mute with the proper use of downshifting.

 

[Allnew2Me]

Deleted, duplicate post

 

[Rockranch]

Thank you all for your responses and ideas. I like Harvey's the best, but cannot afford to start over new. I guess I'll have to make do with what I have. If anyone has any further thoughts, I welcome them.

Thanks,

Larry

 

[CKelley1]

i also like harveys but my rewire will work. as for the jacobs we run a fleet of trucks all with e brakes i have pac, us gear, bd, jacob, and i live at 7,000 feet elevation. on the newer cr trucks as the vacuum pumps fail on the jacobs we convert them to bd's. there is a world of difference instantly noticeable between the two. you may think the jacobs is good but when you remove a jacobs and place a bd on the same truck and see the huge improvement there is no going back.

 

[AH64ID]

With a back pressure gauge I know when my brake peaks in retarding power, and at that level there is no way that a PXRB, BD can be any stronger without exceeding Cummins specs!

I have looked over the Banks/BD/PXRB/Jake install instructions, and don't think a rewire will be very difficult at all. One of the big reasons I don't like Banks is they don't use the ECM for brake logic.

It appears that the Banks compressor only operates when the brake is needed. Is that correct?

 

[HBarlow]

This argument will be continuing 20 years from now. It's identical to the oil brand fights or those who believe fervently in Amway synthetics.

All exhaust brakes except the Jacobs brake increase braking beyond what is naturally created by blocking the exhaust. They are able to creat their own back pressure from hot air. They have a tiny invisible tube connected at the other end to CNN. It's magic. You'll never convince them.

 

[Rockranch]

Yes, AH64ID. As far as I know, the Banks compressor only works when needed. There is no tank. Shortly though, I will be eliminating the Banks compressor, as I am about to install a Kilby OBA. Then all I should need to control is a solenoid for air delivery.