Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) exhaust brake torque converter?

[Pete Schellenbach]

there is a chatter under load in the torque converter, we have a Pac brake on a 1996 automatic Dodge Ram Cummins Diesel. we are leaving on june first for a cross country trip, how do we know if we need to replace the torque converter?

 

[Bob Wagner]

are you using the BD torq-lok ? #ad

 

[Pete Schellenbach]

no i am using a Pac exhaust brake.

 

[Ted Jannetty]

Hello Pete,

Chances are if you experiencing chatter under load, your torque converter has already failed.
I would get it replaced before venturing out across country.



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Ted Jannetty, Owner President, Jannetty Racing Enterprises, Inc.
97 3500 4x4 club cab 5spd. RED, JRE custom power kit, JRE 4" exhaust
JRE 1/2 inch fuel system, Bosch 300 hp injectors, Prime loc,
Cummins chrome kit, US Gear 20% over drive, 3. 54 posi, Autometer
Ultralite 50lb. boost, and Pyrometer, BD exhaust brake.
Horton fan clutch

99 Ski-Doo 800 Formula III Pipes, reeds, studs and clutching 172 hp
99 Honda Forman 450 ES jet kit, pipe, lift kit, 27" Mud Runners
2001 Ski-Doo MXZ 800 X stock for now 140 hp
2000 TransAm Ram Air WS6 Flowmaster, K&N, Granatelli Mass air meter, LS1 Lid 370 hp
1973 Camaro Rally Sport Street Strip 850+ HP

 

[Bill Kondolay]

Pete,

At Diesel Transmission Technology we have a policy of not selling torque converters to guys that are experiencing torque converter shudder.

A torque converter shudder is a symptoms not a cause, you need to find out what is causing the shudder first before you start throwing parts and money at it.

There are several things that can CAUSE tc shudder, injectors, pump timing, transmission oil, i would say 80% of the tc shudder i have personally diagnosed have been ATF oil related. I have also seen injectors cause shudder and in the 24 valve cases the fueling boxes & timing combinations have even caused shudder.

When a tc shudders it is a simple case of the dampner springs within the tc, they are opening and closing, there is not enough hp to keep the springs collapsed and too much power to keep the springs (open) for lack of a better term.

If your engine is not running smoothly it can cause a tc shudder.

Chrysler has been dealing with this issue since 1979. Their latest drivability solution is ATF +4, which has more friction modifiers to allow the tc to slip slightly in turn giving you a smoother ride.

Where i would start first if i were you is a good old fashioned service, make sure the shop DOES NOT use dexron atf, that is the most commonly stocked oil at most transmission facilities.

In order for your exhaust brake to function properly the tc clutch has to be engaged.
A simple test for you is to build up the truck speed up to 60 mph with the exhaust brake engaged and you let off the throttle,
do your rpms drop back to idle , or do they stay high?

Bill Kondolay
Diesel Transmission Technology

 

[BC]

Bill K. ,

A question for you about which ATF fluid to use. It is time to change my trannie fluid and filter. I had my trannie rebuilt at 94k. I fried my trannie outside of Bozeman last fall. When I had my trannie rebuilt I went with a Pro-Loc TC from Suncoast. They also sent a TFOD-Diesel Shift Kit which was installed.

Let me add here that I didn't know about your service at the time. The trannie is working fine but I would have gone with you because of your level of knowledge on this board... which is greatly appreciated.

I replaced my trannie fluid and filter when I got back to Georgia. Now it's time to replace it again. Do I stay with the Dodge trannie fluid or can I go with Amsoil? I've heard lots of different opinions, but you are the great Budda on this subject.

One other question, ever since the rebuild I've noticed a hard shift from 2nd to 3rd. I thought it would go away, it never did. At the time of the rebuild I asked the tech about this problem, he said sometimes this happens with a rebuild, and it should go away in a couple of thousand miles. It hasn't. It hasn't gotten worse either... just a firmer shift between 2nd and 3rd. Any ideas?

Thanks so much for your help.

Bill Cook

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'98, 3500, 112,000 miles, 12 valve, 4x4, QCab, SLT, auto, 3. 54, tow pkg, Pro-Loc TC, TST #8 plate (230/605), BD exhaust brake-presure lock-torque lock, heavy duty valve springs, Mag-Hitech trannie and diff. covers, transmission and pyro gauges pillar mounted, K&N filter, 14k 36' fifth wheel, 12k Sooner 4horse gooseneck, 13K (when loaded), 24ft gooseneck flat bed.

 

[Pete Schellenbach]

To Bill Kondolay:

Dear Bill:

I had my transmission fluid pumped out and replaced on 4-23 by Jiffy Lube. I had purchased, on the advice of Jim Leonard, a case of Quaker State ATF+4, and he had said that was the only ATF fluid to use. He also said to put in 1 pint of 10-40 synthetic motor oil. At Jiffy Lube I was told that their ATF fluid was the same thing, and that they could not use my oil because it would mess up their machine.

I told them to put theirs in, since they assured me that it was exactly the same. They put in Pennzoil ATF TEK with Lifeguard ATF HFM #61910.

When I received your reply last night, I decided I'd call Jiffy Lube and ask if their fluid Dextron. I was told it is, but that the additive makes it ATF+4.

This sounds pretty phony to me. Was he right or do I go someplace else to have it drained again? I had had problems finding someone with the machine that pumps out the torque converter. Do you - or anyone out there - have any suggestions. I live in Tujunga, California, which is near Pasadena, Glendale, Burbank, North Hollywood, etc.

Bill, thank you very much for your prompt, knowledgeable and precise information. My wife has been going through back issues of Trailer Life and Highways, and has been seeing articles about e-brakes and automatic transmissions and is really worried about leaving if there is any possiblility we'll be facing a bad transmission along the way.

I do have a transmission temperature gauge that Jim installed, and the temp has never gone above 200. Normally it runs about 125 F. We've gone about 20,000 since he put in the gauge. He also installed a MagHyTek transmission cover and differential cover at the same time. (Jim is moving, and I haven't been able to get hold of him)

Pete_

 

[Bill Kondolay]

BC & Pete,

Bill got in after midnight and did not see your posts, i will make sure he sees them tomorrow , just didnt want you to think he was ignoring you guys.

Shanti Kondolay
DTT Tech Support

 

[BC]

Thanks, Shanti, I look forward to hearing from him. May I add that you have a beautiful name.

Bill Cook

 

[Bill Kondolay]

A firm 2nd to 3rd shift is usually the result of the transmission builder replacing the waved snap ring in the front drum which acts like a shock absorber.

Replacing it with a flat snap ring which is thicker and can cause a firmer 2-3upshift under light to moderate throttle conditions.

Most transmission builders do this upgrade, including myself. You see, the wave snap ring can roll over if the pressures get too high.
Most technicians that change it do it as a precaution.

With the transgo shift kit depending on which one you buy, you can get an orafice which slows down the flow of oil to the front drum resulting in a smoother shift into third.

Unfortunately you must remove the vb to install the orifice.

If you are booked in for a service anyways, it will probably cost you an extra 1-1/2 hours to have this installed. You may want to inquire before you do the modification about the cost with your shop of choice.

The other thing that can cause a firm 2-3 upshift is if the 2nd gear band adjustment is a little too loose.

Oil, is my achilies heel, this is one of those, do as i say not as i do cases.

I run Dexron oil in my truck simply because its cheap and an agressive ATF(less likely to slip)but more prone to shuddering. Because my truck is used for research & gets abused hard, the transmission is in and out all the time. Most transmissions shops stock dexron oil in bulk, and then they add a friction modifier like the red lubeguard which bring it within Chrylser specs. Obviously this method is not very accurate and can lead to tc and transmission shudders,or if they add too much it can actually cause the transmission to slip.

For most people i recommend atf +3, it is a little more agressive than +4, as the atf+4 has more friction modifiers in it.

A great many Dodge Ram owners are switching to synthetic oil, based on the feedback i get , amzoil seems to be the most popular, however i do not have a personal preference.

As far as adding oil to my atf, i have heard of shops doing but i have never practiced this.

It sounds like you are taking your trans. temps from the pan, those temps if that is where you are reading them from is quite normal.

I dont know if i would dump my oil, it really depends on the technician who was adding the lubeguard.

Lubeguard comes in a red bottle and a black bottle,i NEVER use the black. and I never add more than one bottle of the RED.

Sorry for the delay guys,hope this helps

Bill Kondolay
Diesel Transmission Technology

 

[BC]

Thanks Bill K. , good info.

I think I will stay with the ATF +3. I do the changing of the fluid and filter myself. Have a drain plug in the pan, it makes the job pretty easy.

The only way I would have switched to Amsoil is if you would have said it's 10 times better than regular ATF.

Thanks again, Bill, moving to GA anytime soon?

Bill Cook

 

[Bob Wagner]

more good reading