Exhaust Brake Whistle

[TimothyLong]

For those of you that have been following the saga of the recent repairs that I've needed to get, God bless you and thank you all for your advice. I now have something new to add, but as a quick recap for those coming in late, back in December I had to have the heater core replaced (no heat) and in January I had to have the EGR cooler by-pass valve replaced (the cable broke). BTW, I can now confirm that the recent emissions recall (due the the EPA fine), is causing me to use DEF at twice the rate I was before the recall was applied.

Now, on to the new issue. A few weeks ago, I started to notice a bit of a whistle when the exhaust brake would engage. Nothing on the turbo boost side, just the exhaust brake and no engine codes at all. I seem to be getting adequate boost and brake. Because of the work that I recently had done that touched a lot of EGR stuff, I thought that perhaps something came loose and I had a leak somewhere. So I took my truck back to the dealer that did the other work thinking that if the leak/whistle was related to that work, they should fix it under the parts/labor warranty. The diagnosis that they came back with was that the nozzle ring on the exhaust side of the turbo is sticking, which is what is causing the whistle and also causes the exhaust brake to intermittently not work (they road tested it and the exhaust brake failed to engage properly one out of three times they tested it). They recommended replacing the the turbo. They did say that they tested the turbo actuator and it is working properly and that they checked all of the work they did back in December/January and didn't find any issues. Again, there are no engine codes.

So, I have a few questions before I pull the trigger on replacing the turbo (the dealer will not be doing this work). Does this diagnosis sound correct? Second, I have read good things about the City Diesel remans, are they worth it over getting a new turbo? As always, any advice/opinions are welcome.

 

[sag2]

It does not sound reasonable. If the ring was sticking why would that make it make noise. The ring goes from full in to full out while gong from boost to brake, so if it was held in one place by the actuator it would seem to me it would normally make noise when in that position, but they don't. So I would still think an exhaust leak, and if the EGR or cooler was touched any connection could be the source of a leak. Can you make a video with an old phone under the hood to try and pinpoint the noise? Chassis Ears would be perfect, but an old phone would also work.

 

[TimothyLong]

It does not sound reasonable. If the ring was sticking why would that make it make noise. The ring goes from full in to full out while gong from boost to brake, so if it was held in one place by the actuator it would seem to me it would normally make noise when in that position, but they don't. So I would still think an exhaust leak, and if the EGR or cooler was touched any connection could be the source of a leak. Can you make a video with an old phone under the hood to try and pinpoint the noise? Chassis Ears would be perfect, but an old phone would also work.

Unfortunately, I don't have an old phone that I could do that with. I've been very seriously thinking about taking it to my local shop (that would be doing this work) for a second opinion and see if they can find anything.

 

[TimothyLong]

I have a bit of an update, now that it stopped raining long enough for me to get under the hood. I tightened down the v-clamps on both ends of the EGR crossover tube and took it out for a test drive. The noise hasn't completely gone away, but is it a lot quieter now. So now I'm thinking some new gaskets and v-clamps for the EGR crossover tube might take care of the problem.

 

[brillmtb1]

So I started developing the whistle you describe and now it is getting louder. Dodge mechanic cannot find soot anywhere, exhaust gasket, EGR. It only makes the whistle with EB and louder with tow haul mode engaged. Any ideas where to look next as the dealer I fear wont find the issue until we hit the 1000 dollar mark. Since I started this under warranty I did start a ticket but I will be paying for diagnosing it and so far they cant find the problem.

 

[Topzide]

@brillmtb1, It's more than likely #6 on exhaust gasket. If you can smell exhaust in cab without the re-circulation on, then it's an exhaust leak. There was very little soot showing when mine gave up! Main reason being that #6 is waaay back under the cowling. With all the emissions components on the newer trucks, hard to see and feel around. This seems to be the common spot for this to happen and is the exact way that mine was doing before I got it addressed and found #6 the culprit! Good luck with the repair.

 

[Grumpy8811]

why don't you let it develop to the point it is a real problem ?
it will be easier to diagnose if it gets worse and won't cost you any more than
you are already going to spend right now and you never know, it might last years without repair.

 

[brillmtb1]

Ok back from dealer inspection, despite hearing the whistle with boost and louder with EB on in tow mode they cant reproduce at idle and cant find any soot anywhere so they dont know what to do next. They reassured me they looked at turbo gasket, exhaust gaskets, EGR gasket. I thought you couldnt see under the EGR for exhaust gasket but they said with a mirror they could. Issue is there are not too many places this could be coming from and my money still on exhaust. They said to replace that 6 hours of work at 200/hr and a 600 dollar gasket. Sounds steep.

 

[Topzide]

@brillmtb1, Mine made no noise at idle, only with EB on. Gaskets aren't $600 unless you're buying from the dealer! I did mine in the driveway, bit of a tight reach getting back to #'s 5 & 6. If you can turn wrenches, it's not to bad of a job, just allow a couple of days to complete job. I replaced the studs with new bolts, exhaust manifold gasket set, EGR cooler gasket, EGR bypass gaskets and X-over pipe gaskets. I used aftermarket gaskets and studs with cost around $100.

 

[brillmtb1]

I knew the dealer price was high. What do you think about verifying somehow without me pulling things apart. If they are correct they cannot see soot anywhere but I do clean my engine periodically. Can you really see 2/3 with a mirror and EGR in place that well. I just cant explain how they can hear it not find the leak and not know how to move forward. This cant be the first time they have heard of this or call someone with more experience.

 

[brillmtb1]

And if I do go in there an issue is warped manifold and me not being able to see the subtle issue and putting it back together. Would there be any benefit to going with an aftermarket exhaust manifold or am I asking for more problems with little to no gain

 

[Topzide]

When I did mine @ 180K on the clock, manifold was good. Checked with straight edge. The key is to not let them good to long with the issue. If you can hear it, IT'S leaking! I'm sure with a good light source and a mirror, you'd be able to see some soot. You'll have to "lay" on the engine and look at the far back of the manifold where the cooler attaches on the top of the manifold. The bad thing with mine was it was leaking at the bottom of the manifold. If it was a louder leak, it would be at the x-over pipe and easier to see. If you are worried about the manifold being warped, replace with the factory one. If you are going to replace the manifold, you will need a special wrench to loosen the turbo from the manifold! It's a short wrench that you can put a socket wrench onto. Those bolts are in both ways on the turbo. If you were close enough to my location, would be willing to give you a hand in doing the job. Nice thing is that once you get it free from engine, you can slip a gasket in one at a time with putting the bolts in for the cylinder a few turns till all are in, then torque it back up! PM me if you need a contact number to talk it through. Good luck!

 

[brillmtb1]

Dealer quoted 600 dollar gasket and 1200 labor and look at this fr#ad

 

[brillmtb1]

thats 600 from banks

 

[Ozymandias]

Sometimes I just don't get it.
If there is a whistle and it is the manifold just get it off and put in new seals, there is totally no need to know where it whistles.
Manifold has to come of anyways as always all six seals are replaced together then.

Tell your workshop to get off the line and fix that thing.

 

[Ozymandias]

By the way it can be reproduced most of the time using the EB as a warm-up device. Idling in the workshop bay.

 

[Topzide]

@brillmtb1, That doesn't look like the correct manifold for your truck. Look at Genos page; https://www.genosgarage.com/category/exhaust-manifolds. Your missing gaskets and don't see the 2 ports on top of manifold. Just double check before you pull the trigger!

 

[brillmtb1]

Update and short of me trying to find a diagram of where boost and EB puts pressure into the parts where there may be leaks here I go. So I started out having whistle with EB only and when cold now I have it when I get into the pedel to bring on boost. Of course the dealer said we cant find the problem so we cant fix it, we looked and dont see any soot around the exhaust manifold. So, with this now happening with boost and EB does that narrow down where to look? Also assuming the dealer is correct and not exhaust gasket what is the next most likely in this situation. Thanks!

 

[brillmtb1]

Oh an of course my warrenty runs out in DEC

 

[Ozymandias]

Go to a different dealer, very obvious that yours tries to avoid the job as he loose money with it.