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Explain to me- Dealer hold-back, invoice pricing etc.

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Was trying to make a deal on a left over 2014 3500 yesterday afternoon. I forwarded several dealer advertised pricing for similar trucks in my area with hopes that they would match or beat the price. When the dealer only slightly dropped the price, I started dropping the term 'Hold-back' pricing and then the deal went south.

Can someone refresh my memory what's the difference between MSRP vs Invoice and what the dealer hold-back price is?

Also, I've heard from other consumers that a better deal can be made if I custom order a truck, vs buying one off the lot. How is this so?
 
I just ordered a new 2015 Laramie SRW. I get 1% under invoice because I work for a Ram supplier. The difference between MSRP & invoice appears to be 8.5%. I don't know if the deal I get is a really good deal, it seems like the difference between MSRP & invoice has gotten smaller over the years I've been buying Rams. Or maybe I just remember getting better deals, things always seem better as I remember them than they really were.

Not sure about buying off the lot vs ordering, I get the same deal either way.
 
Was trying to make a deal on a left over 2014 3500 yesterday afternoon. I forwarded several dealer advertised pricing for similar trucks in my area with hopes that they would match or beat the price. When the dealer only slightly dropped the price, I started dropping the term 'Hold-back' pricing and then the deal went south.

Can someone refresh my memory what's the difference between MSRP vs Invoice and what the dealer hold-back price is?

Also, I've heard from other consumers that a better deal can be made if I custom order a truck, vs buying one off the lot. How is this so?


MSRP and Invoice are just numbers (neither are what the dealer really pays the manuf) - Invoice is closer to the dealer cost but is some $$ above dealer cost. Holdback is the amount a vehicle must contribute to the dealers costs (taxes, salaries, utilities, etc plus some profit). It is really impossible to know what the real dealer cost is - I once was able to get a vehicle at Invoice minus manuf incentives/rebates (can find out what these are either in a trade pub or on-line probably). Remember, there are customer incentives/rebates (customer cash) as well as dealer incentives (dealer cash).

It really depends on how much you want the vehicle and how much the dealer is wanting to sell that vehicle. I would never pay anything above "invoice" at a minimum.
 
Dave Smith explained the holdback to be the amount they are awarded upon sale. In my case the truck was priced at invoice minus holdback minus rebates minus Farm Bureau for a whopping $8500 discount on a MSRP of $39700. Mine was a special order,my neighbor got a in stock ST,4wd,cruise,mirrors,G-56,CTD,regcab,vinyl floor work truck for a little over $28K. Unbelievable.
 
I've heard from other consumers that a better deal can be made if I custom order a truck, vs buying one off the lot. How is this so?

An "order" truck SHOULD be cheaper because the dealer doesn't have to finance and insure the truck as he would have to for a truck he buys for stock. Some dealers will tell you otherwise. If they do, RUN.
 
I am trying to order a 2500 w/6.4 right now. Teddy at Dave Smith beat my best local price by $1K with no hassle and no BS, but getting it from ID to AZ is looking to be much costlier than I had anticipated. Any Idaho members come to AZ on a regular basis? LOL
 
I am trying to order a 2500 w/6.4 right now. Teddy at Dave Smith beat my best local price by $1K with no hassle and no BS, but getting it from ID to AZ is looking to be much costlier than I had anticipated. Any Idaho members come to AZ on a regular basis? LOL

This is what discovered also. Flight there, plus fuel/motel on the way back. I've heard other say they saved $1000's through Dave Smith or Deniis Dillion but it's not penciling out for me.
 
Well what better way to Take the Wife on a Date drive down Hwy 395 stop in Reno Nv. have a Nice Dinner and then get up next day and make it to lower Southern ca . maybe even have another nice nite . from reno to socal is 6 hr's you could even make it home the second day if you pushed it .
 
MSRP and Invoice are just numbers (neither are what the dealer really pays the manuf) - Invoice is closer to the dealer cost but is some $$ above dealer cost. Holdback is the amount a vehicle must contribute to the dealers costs (taxes, salaries, utilities, etc plus some profit). It is really impossible to know what the real dealer cost is.
Well not exactly. The invoice is what every dealer pays for the vehicle, period. Yes, every dealer pays the same price for the same truck. The holdback is approximately 3% of the invoice and is rebated back to the dealer after the vehicle is sold. The invoice also includes dealer advertising (required on every invoice for the local DAA the dealer is in) and any required programs if the dealer is enrolled (the quarterly magazine you get etc.). What isn't included is the wholesale money (incentives for selling a quota for the month) because not every dealer hits the quota. That is the only way a Chrysler dealer can "pay less" for a vehicle than another dealer. They do not get paid extra for purchasing more units, only for selling more. The reason Dave Smith and any other dealer like him sells for less than other dealers is he has lower fixed costs (high volume out of a small property, less people as most sales are internet sales), and almost always gets the extra wholesale money from moving big volumes. He works on a smaller margin (gives up the holdback to the retail purchaser) and makes up for it in volume. He also does a good job of selling service contracts (same thing, he discounts them) and accessories, and has the opportunity to make a few bucks on financing.
There is a large fleet dealer in Watsonville CA that sells tens of thousands of cars a year at just a few dollars over his actual net cost. 99% of the cars he sell he has never seen. They are drop shipped to another dealer or straight to the fleet (Enterprise, Dollar, Thrifty etc.) You would think selling as many cars as he does he would easily make millions of dollars, but in reality he probably does not make any more or less than any other dealer because he calculates his lowest price he can sell for and still get the bids, and still stay in business. He is a great dealer that employs many local folks and is comfortable doing this part of the business for not a lot of profit. He has done it for years and has it dialed in. Most other dealer would not touch this business because "there isn't any money in it".
 
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You are exactly correct, but using 3% of invoice is pretty darn close, especially when everyone wants to know the invoice price. The difference between the two calculations on a $40k truck is less than 1/2 a tank of fuel.
I was thinking about how everyone wants to buy vehicles at or near cost, and I'm just as guilty as the next guy. Many dealers are just becoming profitable after the melt down of the late 2000's. Compare that to Apple Computer who had sales of $170 billion and profit of $49 billion in 2013. When was the last time you got a discount on an apple product? That is a 25% profit margin, year after year. If anyone could afford to give the consumer a break it is Apple. According to NADA the average dealer in 2013 had a profit margin of just over 2%.
Yes vehicles cost more than I phones, but every time you purchase one you are getting a really good screwing. You should actually give your dealer (all dealers, not just Chrysler) a big hug for not being as greedy as some other industries.
 
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Well not exactly. The invoice is what every dealer pays for the vehicle, period. Yes, every dealer pays the same price for the same truck. The holdback is approximately 3% of the invoice and is rebated back to the dealer after the vehicle is sold. The invoice also includes dealer advertising (required on every invoice for the local DAA the dealer is in) and any required programs if the dealer is enrolled (the quarterly magazine you get etc.). What isn't included is the wholesale money (incentives for selling a quota for the month) because not every dealer hits the quota. That is the only way a Chrysler dealer can "pay less" for a vehicle than another dealer. They do not get paid extra for purchasing more units, only for selling more. The reason Dave Smith and any other dealer like him sells for less than other dealers is he has lower fixed costs (high volume out of a small property, less people as most sales are internet sales), and almost always gets the extra wholesale money from moving big volumes. He works on a smaller margin (gives up the holdback to the retail purchaser) and makes up for it in volume. He also does a good job of selling service contracts (same thing, he discounts them) and accessories, and has the opportunity to make a few bucks on financing.
There is a large fleet dealer in Watsonville CA that sells tens of thousands of cars a year at just a few dollars over his actual net cost. 99% of the cars he sell he has never seen. They are drop shipped to another dealer or straight to the fleet (Enterprise, Dollar, Thrifty etc.) You would think selling as many cars as he does he would easily make millions of dollars, but in reality he probably does not make any more or less than any other dealer because he calculates his lowest price he can sell for and still get the bids, and still stay in business. He is a great dealer that employs many local folks and is comfortable doing this part of the business for not a lot of profit. He has done it for years and has it dialed in. Most other dealer would not touch this business because "there isn't any money in it"

You are exactly correct, but using 3% of invoice is pretty darn close, especially when everyone wants to know the invoice price. The difference between the two calculations on a $40k truck is less than 1/2 a tank of fuel.
I was thinking about how everyone wants to buy vehicles at or near cost, and I'm just as guilty as the next guy. Many dealers are just becoming profitable after the melt down of the late 2000's. Compare that to Apple Computer who had sales of $170 billion and profit of $49 billion in 2013. When was the last time you got a discount on an apple product? That is a 25% profit margin, year after year. If anyone could afford to give the consumer a break it is Apple. According to NADA the average dealer in 2013 had a profit margin of just over 2%.
Yes vehicles cost more than I phones, but every time you purchase one you are getting a really good screwing. You should actually give your dealer (all dealers, not just Chrysler) a big hug for not being as greedy as some other industries. .

Having been in a similar business working at the wholesale (manufacturer rep) level and at the retail level for nearly 30 years, sag2 is telling it like it is.

Bill
 
Why not have them fly you in and drive it back it won't cost that much in fuel .

Time. Shorthanded at the shop, can't get away.
Cheapest flight I found to Spokane is about $200. Add return fuel approx $250, one night at a roach motel, and a meal or two, and where's that leave me?
 
Find a Hungary dealer in your state, and see if they will match Smiths price. But they have to be Hungary. But watch the bottom line on the deal.
Plus if you buy Smiths deal you get to break in you truck in coming home, and you get a trip out of it.
 
This is what discovered also. Flight there, plus fuel/motel on the way back. I've heard other say they saved $1000's through Dave Smith or Deniis Dillion but it's not penciling out for me.

It didn't pencil out for me, either.....End of the day I was chasing just a few dollars savings, which would have ended up in the fuel tank and a motel bill.......dealt local, plus there are advantages had when the selling dealer is also the servicing dealer.

Sam
 
For me, it mattered a lot what equipment/options the Ram had. I found exactly one within 1000 miles, and was happy to get a good deal on it, and that it was only 280 miles away. The dealer was very nice to work with (Town & Country in Salida, CO) and it took only minutes to make the deal, and minutes to complete the paperwork when I picked up the Ram. Several months afterward that, I found that a few people got leftover '13s with a bit steeper discount, but when you wait that long, you usually have to make more compromises on color, options, etc. I found mine through the ramtrucks website, and that is a great resource for us, if we want a specific set of options.
 
Find a Hungary dealer in your state, and see if they will match Smiths price. But they have to be Hungary. But watch the bottom line on the deal.
Plus if you buy Smiths deal you get to break in you truck in coming home, and you get a trip out of it.

Don't know of any Hungarian dealers...for sure not any in the states... and Hungary is a long trip! Might have better luck finding a hungry dealer! Sorry, couldn't resist:)
 
I located my truck on the internet in OK. and had a friend with a plane fly my wife and I up to an airport within a mile of the dealership. Cost was about the price of a single ticket if I had flown commercial, paid for the plane's fuel in both directions plus the hotel for my wife and I. I gave the local dealers an opportunity to match the deal or to even get close if they wanted to sell me a truck. Locally, within a 100 miles they were still 5-K+ over the OK. dealership. It was a no brainer for me to take the flight and my wife and I enjoyed the drive back over 600 miles. If the Kelly Blue Book is a good indicator for the price, I am very happy with going the distance. I bought in July and it is just now that I am seeing to $ off of what I paid. Started looking for the Western Brown but have the Prairie Pearl which was the second choice. I also spoke with a dealer in Vernon, TX who sent me a price quote that showed the dealer Hold Back, If I still have the quote on my home computer I will check and try to explain as I understand the hold back. If my memory serves me it was somewhere in the 3-K range. Happy, Happy, Happy!
 
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I located my truck on the internet in OK. and had a friend with a plane fly my wife and I up to an airport within a mile of the dealership. Cost was about the price of a single ticket if I had flown commercial, paid for the plane's fuel in both directions plus the hotel for my wife and I. I gave the local dealers an opportunity to match the deal or to even get close if they wanted to sell me a truck. Locally, within a 100 miles they were still 5-K+ over the OK. dealership. It was a no brainer for me to take the flight and my wife and I enjoyed the drive back over 600 miles. If the Kelly Blue Book is a good indicator for the price, I am very happy with going the distance. I bought in July and it is just now that I am seeing to $ off of what I paid. Started looking for the Western Brown but have the Prairie Pearl which was the second choice. I also spoke with a dealer in Vernon, TX who sent me a price quote that showed the dealer Hold Back, If I still have the quote on my home computer I will check and try to explain as I understand the hold back. If my memory serves me it was somewhere in the 3-K range. Happy, Happy, Happy!

I have heard reports from others that the dealer, VERNON AUTOGROUP, Vernon, TX really gives some good prices on Ram trucks and no hassles.

Bill
 
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