EXPLAIN YOURSELF, Don M

[Briar Hopper]

You just called me a liar, Don. I have friends all across the nation that know I'm honest, and don't lie. I take offense to you calling me a liar. You just exhibited a certain lack of intelligence in doing so. It should be obvious to anyone reading these posts that you are now just digging for anything you can find to throw at me.

Here are the facts. I don't make money by selling for a profit. It does not sit well with me to profit from my friends, so I don't. However, if I don't know the person, I'll pass the products on to him at retail cost. Also, I make money off the commissions, due to the sales structure of Amsoil. Something you missed in your haste to take a potshot at me. It is a legitimate business, and a fine product.

 

[KMeek]

Alright kids. Go to your rooms and don't come out until you can play nice!



Both sides to this issue have done a service to the TDR members in fully addressing this issue--although I now think enough has been said. I interject only to make what I think are a few simple observations. In making my comments I would simply note that I am not an Amsoil user--although I did drive by one of their signs one time.



First, there is nothing wrong in being persistent--the term has been used as though persistence is a bad thing. It isn't. Most of the meaningful accomplishments of our society are the result of persistence (although I doubt the Amsoil debate will make its mark in any history books). Second, I fail to see how one side has been any more or less persistent than the other--in other words the fight should end when the most meaningful attack left is a claim that someone has been "persistent". TDR readers should certainly expect better arguments that that. Third, I personally do not think it is appropriate for any party to attack another person in the way it has been done by both sides. If you want to attack one another personally that is fine with me but "take it outside".



My personal perception is that for the most part TDR readers want integrity in their products. Generally we are offended when a product is labeled as complying with certain standards when it does not. Or, we are offended by exaggerated performance claims. Enough has been said about Amsoil for everyone to make their own decision about whether Amsoil has misled people about meeting standards or whether it has exaggerated claims of performance.



I do not know Don. I have never met him or exchanged any communications with him. It is my sense that he brought this issue to us, at least in part, because our warranties are dependent upon using lubricants that meet manufacturer specifications. For that I thank him.

 

[Don M]

Briar,

Reading the text you typed I see you one minute saying you "make money" from it and in the other you say you dont.



The words are either twisted or you lied. I will accept that you twisted the wording and you did not lie to me. Its either one or the other. If its not lying, its twisting the wording.



I cant find the "exibition of a lack of intelligence" from me asking why in one thread you said you did not sell the oil for a profit and then go and say you were a "believer and making money" from Amsoil. How could you find this a lack of intelligence. I simply recalled you told me earlier this year that you made "no money" from Amsoil and now you do. Its an inconsistant statement that seems to be twisted or a lie.



Don~

 

[Sled Puller]

Never Finish- (should be somebody elses name)



Yes, I saw you post out there, as well as another Amsoil basher.



Midnite,

I respect your opinion. And you are right, it had nothing to do with oil, it has to do with Don an his slanderous attacks are getting out of control.



And you are also right, I should not have made this thread, but i wanted to show people that this crap is being started by the same person all over the net.





All I ask is people READ closely. The only fact Mr. Don has, which is no secret, is that some Amsoil Oils are not API certified, but they do exceeed the specs. He can not prove they don't. But he sure wants people to believe that he can.



The rest? Wellll... ... ... .....







You know what is really interesting??



The same guys that back up Don also back up the Liberal side of thinking on the political threads.

 

[KMeek]

I can see the bumper stickers now, "Conservatives use Amsoil"

 

[Deezul1]

For those who think an API certification is a must for good oil= no certification it cant be any good, please go look at your Rotella T or Dello 400 and post if you see a API certification seal on it. Dont make the mistake of seeing the words "meets API spec" that is not a certification, there is a seal right on the front of the container. I think any of the major oils whether synthetic or dino are prolly going to work just fine and the extended drain thing is a matter of what each person thinks is best for him. Neither choice makes anybody a BAD guy after all it is a choice not a requirement so lighten up guys. As far as extended drain and anyalisis if the oil is tested about when you would normally do a change then you will know if you have problem and fix it where as if you just change and think thats good enough then you could have a problem and not know and do some damage.

There are pros and cons for each system, neither is all good or all bad.

John

 

[Steve Roseman]

KMeek,

Very well said. I think most TDR members are intelligent enough to make their decisions based on the facts



As for some others: Bringing facts to our attention has been appreciated. Once the facts are there and it just becomes a slugfest:-{} , I wonder how some people can have so much time on their hands.



For me, K&N air filter, Amsoil in the transmission, and Rotella in the crankcase

 

[PRout]

Originally posted by Gary - KJ6Q





And Don makes those opinions WITHOUT need for insult or personal attack, or demeaning attitude...



His critics could learn a LOT from him!

Well said. Sure hate to see a PERSONAL thread started against someone that makes a reasonable argument, and does show INTELLIGENCE.



If facts are that threatening, theres something wrong somewhere.



If the oil is NOT API, its not bound to an industry standard. It may be superior today, what about tomorrow? If its not documented, its only someones opinion.

 

[Don M]

RJOL,

I was confused as well after finding out some stuff about Amsoil



here are some similarities of Asmoil to Amway to help clear the confusion up for others.



Amway= MLM sales structure

Amway= vitamin sales

Amway= Red, White and Blue packing and logo (kinda patriotic huh?)

Amway= detergent sales (laundry, etc)

Amway= Has the "Am" in the name like American

Amway= sold through independant dealers



Amsoil= MLM sales structure

Amsoil= vitamins sales through a sister company called altruam or something like that

Amsoil= Red, White and Blue packing and logo

Amsoil= detergent sales through sister company mentioned earlier along with water filters and other stuff

Amsoil= Has the "Am" in the name like American

Amsoil= sold through independant dealers



They are certainly similar to me. Confusing yes, but similar.







Gene,



Im not starting stuff all over the net. I told you owned a Ford truck and the TDR and Ford sites are the only ones I have ever posted oil relted topics on. Not all over the net. You are wrongo Pal.

Liberals are not the only defenders of me. You are spot-on wrongo again. Im no liberal and many of the guys who support me are not either. It just doesnt wash Gene. Further, proving the oil exceeds API specs is what I have been asking for over the last few months. No salesmen from Amsoil nor Amsoil themselves can show me the data. Not a single in-compliance test. Remember that part of the compliance is a quality control audit from the API to make sure the marketers are on the up and up. Amsoils has elected to forgo the certifications and the audit process.



Just show me some test data to prove the product is "meeting API specs" It still will not be API certified, but it will be at least doing what they say it does. Until Amsoil decides to tweak the formula again and then they should re-test again.

Why should the public prove the oil does not when deciding to buy a product. Why should the customer bear the testing? Its the marketers job to supply supporting data the product is compliant, not the customer. Geesh!



Customer to dealer: "can you show me some data that your product meets a certain level of performance?" Dealer to customer:"Can you please show me where it is not compliant or does not meet the level"



What kinda' logic is that?



Don~

 

[Don M]

Hi John,



Oh boy I hated to see you and I end up on the opposite side of the fence on this one. Of Course I dont feel the your warranty is an issue anyway. You can use whatever oil you heart desires and not wonder in the back of your head if the it API licensed or not.

For the record... and I dont know why this is, but many oil makers do not include the API donut on the small bottles even if they have them.

The Rotella T and the Delo 400 are both API licensed and even appear in the approved oil lists from many manufacturers and have been through and passed the oil engine tests from the API and OEM's.



the best way to find out if a product is API licensed or not is to go to the API website and cjeck to type and brand you are inquiring about.



Go here to read about them all. The APi states they update the lists bi-weekly to "weed out" or "add to" the list



http://www.api.org/cgi-bin/eolcs_di.cgi



Don~

 

[Briar Hopper]

My words were not twisted, and I did not lie. The reference to a lack of intelligence on your part, is due to the fact that many people consider it a mortal insult to be called a liar. You called me a liar. I'll take care of that problem later.

It boggles my mind to see the blindness of your supporters, that passed right over that post of yours, where you insulted me by calling me a liar. These supporters of yours then continued to insinuate that you were not insulting in any of your posts. People will believe what they want to believe.

 

[fj40charles]

This thread is getting out of hand. . I think if someone will show or provide proof that Amsoil is API certfied, Don will be happy and not bash Amsoil.



So far, I have not seen the certification yet? Can someone explain why it is not available. I would like to know because I have Amsoil gear oil in the diffs.



Please provide proof (picture of a API donut) tha Amsoil is

API certified. Does it have the CH-4 rating for diesel engine oil?



Thanks,

Charles

 

[Don M]

Briar, the back and forth can be stopped at any time. Just tell me why you changed your position about making money on the oil or not making money on the oil. Please explain to me what you mean.

This is the second time you have told me to "watch out for you" or you would "take care of it later".

You have threatened me twice now that I recall. I can check the archives I guess to see what threat you made last time.

You like to call me names and then threaten me when I question your wording. What gives? Why not just admit you have "double spoken" and get the issue put to bed instead of making threats to me?



Don~

 

[TDRadmin]

Thread Closed

At the request of MULTIPLE users, I'm closing this thread.



I don't see anything that is an intentional violation of the guidelines, but the thread has digressed and contains posts that are as much a personal attack as a factual discussion.



Oil is always an emotional issue. A lot of good data here. Just a little too much personal stuff.



Robin

TDR Admin