Extending OCIs...filter changes?

[steved]

I'm probably asking a stupid question, but its mainly because I don't know. It seems everyone gets in an uproar as soon as you mention extending OCIs, let alone "expecting" a filter to last past the recommended OCI/FCI.



If you have a bypass filter in place, how long can you safely run a standard (but quality) oil filter, like a Fleetguard or WIX? I've been running around 20k OCIs. I'm not as concerned about plugging the filter as much as the media failing. What it the expected life of a filter?



I been running a bypass for almost 200k now... I know I've ran several full-flow filters out to 30k, changing only the bypass and adding makeup oil. That was when I had a GCF. Did I just get lucky?



I changed bypass filters, and I currently have a spin-on filter. I have been pushing out to 20k miles, no filter changes and no make-up oil. I've done UOAs, and like all of them; they come back suitable for continued use. Today I changed oil... 22. 5k. All the filters I've cut apart have been fine, nothing out of the ordinary. I always have good oil flow at the bypass and the full-flow filter still gets hot indicating it has good flow.



I keep looking at the fact the recommended OCI/FCI is 15k (for the type of driving I do)... and its only another 5k miles beyond that. I have a bypass filter. And my UOAs keep coming back good.



Thoughts?

 

[AH64ID]

If it's not a extended life filter then its really only good for the OEM OCI. Companies will add just enough media to meet the OEM holding capacity. You just don't know if the filter is still working or not as they have an internal bypass for when the PSID gets too high. The bypass may be keeping the oil clean, but the full flow may be full.

As far as life from media failing I don't think you have any issues there.

If I ran any oil filter but the Amsoil/Donaldson and ran longer than OEM OCI's I would be changing my full flow every 7500 miles.

 

[MChrist]

Since we are on the subject of bypass filters and oil analysis reports, I have a question. Wouldn't the bypass filter catch some of the things that they look for in the lab? I know they look for aluminum, copper, iron, etc... in the Parts Per Million. Do these bypass filters possibly catch particles that small, potentially giving a false/safe reading, when there may actually be a bearing ready to go or high silicon indicating a poor air filter?
Don't mean to hijack, just curious.
Thanks

 

[AH64ID]

It's not an issue. The Amsoil bypass is 2um absolute, that's a lot bigger than PPM. The larger particles are caught, but the smaller ones that are measured on oil analysis are still suspended. It will keep the readings lower as most of the stuff gets caught, but it will still show you if there are issues.

 

[steved]

But on that note, we seem to get hung up on the idea our sumps are extremely dirty... are there really enough 40u particles floating around a seasoned engine to plug a filter? If we are shedding that many particles to plug a filter, that would indicate a problem to me that no filter is going to fix.



If its soot we are concerned about, then the bypass should catch those particles before the full flow would ever catch it (and the bypass should plug early?)... soot agglomerates to a larger particle, it just doesn't appear as a abrasive particle. My UOAs come in good, soot is typically under 0. 5%.



Again, the fullflow still got hot indicating it was still flowing... its not like it has an internal bypass. The bypass was still flowing good, I can see it at the return.

 

[AH64ID]

Actually oil filters do have an internal bypass. That's one of the purposes of the spring on the bottom.

Is it really worth the risk for a cheap filter?

 

[steved]

The purpose of the spring in the bottom is to hold/seal the center tube against the mounting plate... our Cummins-spec'd filters do not (or rather, should not) have an internal bypass.



Think about that spring... how is the oil going to press against it, for it to collapse and allow oil to bypass the media? The dirty oil is actually working with the spring, pressuring the media from outside to inside... oil pressure actually adds to the sealing pressure of that spring.



The bypasses built into most filters are specific for that purpose.



If this is the case, then the Amsoil EaBP bypass you use would also have a bypass, which we know it does not according to Amsoil... it has a spring in the base too, I have cut them apart before.

 

[steved]

I have decided my new plan for filter changes though... thanks for the insight.

 

[AH64ID]

You are correct, I was thinking of a different filter. The filter bypass is in the block and opens when there is a 50 PSID across the filter.


So what's your plan?

 

[steved]

If the UOA comes back good this time (at 22. 5k), I'll probably do a 15k full flow FCI and 30k OCI. The truck sits with 245k, and while this bypass is new and I have relatively few UOAs with it, my previous UOAs were also good.

Here is a picture of the filters disassembled. The Baldwin is a 15u absolute, with less than 5u nominal... not the best, but it adds filtration and volume to the system and its fairly inexpensive. It seems to work well for my setup. Amazingly enough, this oil typically comes back with less than 0. 5% soot and suitable for continued use... and that's similar results from two different labs.

#ad


For what its worth, I have seen no benefit from running my previous Gulf Coast Filter over this cheaper, and less efficient, Baldwin. UOAs for the same mileage are identical, soot is the same, TBN is the same. Its not like I've done a particle count, but the oil doesn't seem to care one way or the other.

 

[AH64ID]

My soot is never that low!

 

[steved]

Ok, while on the subject... your thoughts on this scenario:

You extend your OCI using UOA and bypass filtration. Because you still have good flow from your bypass, you chose to drop the oil and full flow filter and retain your bypass because its "not spent". You continue on happily.

As the oil loads up with soot, that soot reaches a point it surpasses the limit that the dispersant in the oil can prevent the oil from agglomerating into larger particles. These newly formed agglomerated soot particles are filtered out of suspension by your bypass filter, just as expected. As described in the scenario presented above, you OCI/FCI and keep the bypass in place.

My question is this: Will the fresh oil, and its fresh load of dispersant, cause the soot that is currently captured in the bypass filter to de-agglomerate and re-enter suspension???

 

[AH64ID]

I actually have not used the bypass for more than 1 OCI to date, this next change will be my first try at keeping it for 2 OCI's. The longer you run a filter the more efficient it is, until it block/impededs flow, so I should get better filtration keeping the bypass longer.

Modern oils make it really hard to filter soot in any filter, as they are all designed to keep soot from agglomerating.

 

[steved]

I've had one of about three bypass filtration systems in use since around 60k... I sit at 245k currently.

My favorite to date is the Amsoil with the older BE-series filters... while they claim the EaBP is better, not in my experience.

I'm actually thinking of trying something... probably too much work involved at this point though. Running through the Baldwin and then through a Frantz. Maybe, someday, if I ever get time.

 

[steved]

245,136 miles
22,536 miles on oil

NO MAKEUP OIL
NO OIL LOST (LEVEL FULL in = LEVEL FULL out)
NO FILTER CHANGE (during this 22k run)

At least 25% was towing a a trailer between 5000 and 8500 pounds. Two trips between Columbus, GA and Pennsylvania were over 7000 each.

(All in PPM, unless otherwise noted)

CU - 16
FE - 39
CR - 1
AL - 7
PB - 6
MO - 303
P - 931
ZN - 1093
MG - 732
CA - 1128
NA - 8
K - 1
ANTIFREEZE - N%
FUEL - N%
H20 - 0. 0%
SI - 5
VISC - 15. 87 CST
SAE - 40
SULFUR - 9%
OXIDATION - 3%
NITRATION - 12%
SOOT - 0. 9%

Schaeffers noted the oil to be normal and to extend the change to 25,500 miles.

 

[steved]

On a side note, I picked up another Amsoil head and pair of filters to give another whirl...

 

[NavyDood]

Holy crap!!!! What is that black tar mess all over the filters and bench?

 

[steved]

If I worried about the look of the oil, I'd never be able to get the truck out of the driveway... I'd always be changing oil!

 

[Prairie Dog]

My oil isn't that black when I change it at 5 or 6k miles. In fact, I can still see through it to some degree.

 

[steved]

You do realize that oil has over 22k miles on it right??