F-22 Raptor

[loncray]

Hey, something I can agree with Randy on! It isn't just the F/A-22 by itself - it's when you add in Aegis and AWACS and other such systems that our Air Force becomes pretty well unbeatable in an air-to-air environment.

 

[kowaliga]

Randy you seem reasonably knowledgeable about this stuff. I am unaware, so I was hoping that perhaps you could tell me precisely which system the Aegis would employ to take out one or more Russian Moskit (aka Sunburn) or Yakhont (aka Onyx aka 'Super Sunburn') anti-ship cruise missiles which both fly in the neighborhood of mach 2. 5 or better with the latter capable of 'end run maneuvers'. All I've been able to determine is that these two Russian anti-ship cruise missiles are 'unstoppable' with US DoD apologists saying "Oh, we can do that, but it's a secret. " The funny thing is that the Russian weapon systems are completely transparent and out in the open (indeed, the Russians will let anyone fly their frontline fighters, the Su-30 and the MiG-29 for about $12k and if one is a bona fide US military fighterjet pilot they will allow you to fly in the front seat). It could lead a reasonable person to believe that the primarily objective of the DoD budget is strictly to line the pockets if 'defense industry' insiders.



Hmmm... Su-30MKI with with 3D TVC and the best avionics in the world from France and Israel= $45 million each; F-22 with 2D TVC and less payload capability than the Su-30 = ~$500 million each (in a fleet of only about 167 AC)... hmmm...







I find it very fascinating that when the USAF sent a few F-15Es with pilots to conduct joint exercises with the IAF in May of '04 the Indians whupped 'em with the standard Su-30 (no canards and no TVC as opposed to the Su-30MKI).

The yet-to-be electric DDX, with its proposed chemical oxygen-iodine laser air defense, will have a chance against the super-fast Sunburn. . and only a submarine has a chance today... assuming the Blackjack gets close enough to launch it. The Eagle-E's in the Indian exercise were outnumbered 4-1, with standard radar and were defeated. Alaskan F-15's, as a result, now incorporate an F-22 derivative AESA which will return the advantage when similarly outnumbered.

 

[AfterBurner]

I have heard that the raptor has the IR signature of a couple of birds, but I have no facts to back it up.

Also, it will carry the AIM 9X, an new variant, and the AIM 7 is not listed for it's armarment.

 

[RandyHamilton]

Randy you seem reasonably knowledgeable about this stuff. I am unaware, so I was hoping that perhaps you could tell me precisely which system the Aegis would employ to take out one or more Russian Moskit (aka Sunburn) or Yakhont (aka Onyx aka 'Super Sunburn') anti-ship cruise missiles which both fly in the neighborhood of mach 2. 5 or better with the latter capable of 'end run maneuvers'. All I've been able to determine is that these two Russian anti-ship cruise missiles are 'unstoppable' with US DoD apologists saying "Oh, we can do that, but it's a secret. " The funny thing is that the Russian weapon systems are completely transparent and out in the open (indeed, the Russians will let anyone fly their frontline fighters, the Su-30 and the MiG-29 for about $12k and if one is a bona fide US military fighterjet pilot they will allow you to fly in the front seat). It could lead a reasonable person to believe that the primarily objective of the DoD budget is strictly to line the pockets if 'defense industry' insiders.



Hmmm... Su-30MKI with with 3D TVC and the best avionics in the world from France and Israel= $45 million each; F-22 with 2D TVC and less payload capability than the Su-30 = ~$500 million each (in a fleet of only about 167 AC)... hmmm...

QUOTE]



The best option is to shoot the archer so that you don't have to deal with his arrows! There are few problems that cannot be corrected with 1 division (4 planes) of f-18's,, properly equipped of course. . I am assuming that we know that the Sovremenny Destroyer is in our neighborhood in the first place. (We are pretty good at that as well!!!) If I remember correctly the sunburn has a range of about 60 or 70 miles, very similar to our Harpoon, it has been called a Harpoonski in the past. The U. S. Navy tends to have a VERY GOOD idea of all ships and aircraft within 300 or so miles of their Carrier Battle Groups... So,, if he gets off his ssn-22's we will shoot sm-2 Surface to air missiles until we either run out of missiles, the sunburns are gone or we go up in a spectacular explosion!!! The "secret" weapons or tactics to be used against ALL missiles is secret for a reason. . But it would involve ALL possible weapons, Missiles, Guns and Electronic warfare systems, , even firing off mortar shells full of aluminum foil!! They all work together. . You can't just say they have that weapon and we can take it out with THIS weapon.



IRST systems are nothing new in Fighter aircraft. . There have been other passive systems employed as well. . The Tomcat had a camera that could track a fighter at 40 miles!@!@ Alas the Tomcats are off to DM air base in Tucson.



But I digress. .



I never flew any of our Aircraft but I was an Air Intercept Controller in the Navy for 16 years. We were responsible for putting the Fighters in a position to kill the bad guy. When I wasn't doing that I was on the team that would put the weapons systems into play on both Leahy and Aegis class Cruisers.



CV-59, CG-21, CG-23, CG-63

 

[vegasredneck]

Nellis AFB is just neet to watch at night because you can park at the LVMS and watch our tax dollars take off afterburners and all. It is really something on how far you can see that flame after they take off.

 

[SGibson]

Are all 14 outfits over?

 

[RandyHamilton]

I saw an article a month or so ago that the last remaining Tomcat squadron was on its way back to CONUS and was to be transitioned to the Hornet with the Tomcats going to DM in Tucson.



It sure makes me feel old!! I started out controlling the F-4, which the F-14 replaced and now the FA-18 has replaced it...



This also marks the end of the AIM-54 Phoenix. . 100nm range, Fire and Forget, 6 in the air at one time from 1 Tomcat, , , , ,

The Tomcat was the only platform that carried it. .

End of an era,,,,,,,,,



From Wikipedia



The F-14 is rapidly disappearing from U. S. Navy service. It originally was slated to remain in service through at least 2008, but all F-14A and F-14B airframes have already been retired, and only two squadrons (VF-31 Tomcatters and VF-213 Black Lions which fly the "D" model) remain and will be disestablished or converted by September 2006. It is being replaced by the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet.





And from Military dot Com



The ship and squadron already have taken part in Summer Pulse ’04 and Rim of the Pacific ’04. They left Sasebo Wednesday for PASEX, an upcoming communications exercise with other nations in the region, said Stennis spokesman Lt. Corey Barker. After this summer, the Tomcatters are to deploy once more from the U. S. East Coast, then head to the great aircraft retirement home in the desert, Davis-Monthan Air Force Base, Tucson, Ariz.

 

[SGibson]

Makes me feel the same way,I saw the patches w/the cat kicking Spook over the side also, no more air superiority fighter or phoenix for the Navy now..... Adios baby.

 

[RandyHamilton]

Yea, we used to call the Phantom the "Lead Sled" cause that is how well they glided if they lost both engines. . The Tomcat came along and then we started waxing nostalgic about the Phantom, even though the Tomcat was light years better as a weapons platform. . I don't necessarily believe the Super Hornet is that much better than the Tomcat, but with the USSR disolved and Russia acting friendly I guess they figured we didn't need to be able to reach out and touch someone that far away using the Tomcat/Phoenix combination so they kicked the Tomcat to the curb. .

 

[loncray]

Ah, the F-4 Phantom II - proof that, given sufficient thrust, a brick will fly.

 

[nps]

Ah, the F-4 Phantom II - proof that, given sufficient thrust, a brick will fly.

I always thought it was a refrigerator given the doors that open on it.



Oh, and they don't land. They perform a controlled crash maneuver.

 

[loncray]

And THAT'S why a US Naval Aviator is (no offense to the USAF) the best plane driver on the planet.

 

[kowaliga]

And THAT'S why a US Naval Aviator is (no offense to the USAF) the best plane driver on the planet.

We stress the title 'Aviator', and concur.

 

[nps]

And THAT'S why a US Naval Aviator is (no offense to the USAF) the best plane driver on the planet.

One has to earn his wings, and the other has to earn his merit badge. :-laf

 

[loncray]

NPS - Dude! - you're going to get me in trouble with the USAF wingnuts. I did NOT intend to direct this thread down an AF-bashing direction, I just wanted to say something good about the Navy.

 

[nps]

I work around mostly retired AF, and being a retired Marine from the airwing (an even better breed of Naval Aviator ) you can only imagine the fur that flys from time to time. :-{}



But the fact remains, the real military always trumps the Boy Scouts. :-laf

 

[loncray]

Well, many of my friends are ex-military and/or work with active duty military folks. We've got one ex-Marine Reservist (who's smart enough to have been Army), I'm Army and NG, another guy was Army, and one guy who was Army, Army NG, AF Reserve, and is currently Navy Reserve. He tells us he's too smart to go Marines, but wants a stint as a Coastie before he's too old.

I will say this about the Marines - when I was in HS, I took the ASVAB tests, did really well, and indicated 'interested in the military' on the form. The Marine Recruiter was the first guy to visit me - he was strack from head to toe, and I didn't feel I could live up to that standard. Thus, I ended up in the Army. It didn't hurt that they had a really nice bonus for my MOS either.

 

[RandyHamilton]

From time to time

And THAT'S why a US Naval Aviator is (no offense to the USAF) the best plane driver on the planet.

We allow representatives from the cough cough "other" aviation services the opportunity to train with and eventually (if they decide to go through with it) the chance to attempt carrier landings (controlled crashes). Many are called but few are accepted!!! Seriously guys,, they have around a 100 ft strip of flight deck to hit in order to catch a wire, they have to hit a target that is moving in at least 2 and in many cases 3 planes (directions) at the same time (forward, up/down and side to side) AND the instand their wheels hit the deck they have to hit the gas and THEN in a split second decide if they caught a wire in which case they snap the throttles back, or they missed and they have to continue down the angle deck and perform a missed approach or a Bolter!! They say it is pretty exciting. .



Naval aviators and some Marines have had their vitals monitored during the harriest arial maneuvers AND while landing on a carrier. . No comparison, the vital signs during landing eclipse all other vitals by a large margin. .

 

[Paychk]

Trivia for you aviation buffs... an easy one



What is the largest cargo A/C to ever land on & take off from a carrier?

 

[The patriot]

C-130?