F-650/Cummins ISBE

[Kerm]

I just bought a new F-650 with a dump body. It has the Cummins ISBE in it but the poor old thing is only rated @ 235hp??? I have the ISBE in my 04 Dodge 3500 right? What can I do to increase the performance in my dump truck? Are all the same products compatable with both motors(boxes,exhaust,ect)? Is the same turbo even used? Or would it be and improvement to put a turbo off a stock Dodge/Cummins on it? I guess I just really don't understand why they would design two different common rail motors with different HP ratings. Why would they not want 305 or 325hp in the Ford? How can I make my Ford/Cummins the same as my Dodge/Cummins? Help I need more HP!!!

 

[mberry]

I do not believe the boxes would work on it. As I understand it (which isn't much) it has a few different parts on it as well. Don't know about the turbo, but I'm pretty sure it has a different cam than the Dodge/Cummins application. Isn't it rated for more torque than our Cummins engine?

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Yes I believe it's rated at more torque. Less HP because it's a heavier truck with much higher GVWR than our trucks. It has to do with duty cycle and so on, sustained load at full power or percentage of time at full throttle.



If you think the Cummins is rated low, compare it to the stock 6L Powerstroke engine it comes with (200 last I knew). Vaughn

 

[Kerm]

Yeah it is rated for more torque. But, it is still the common rail type setup. That is why I thought it might be able to use the same chips.

 

[Kerm]

Are there any boxes or performance upgrades available for it?

 

[jwilliams3]

Hmmmm.



On the ISBe or industrial "ISB02" "ECHO" etc. There is 2 sensors on the intake manifold coverplate: one is the "MAP" (boost) sensor, the other is the IAT sensor or (intake air temp) sensor.



On the DCX (dodge) version of the ISBe there is only 1 sensor that is referred to as a "combo" sensor as it does the combination of both MAP and IAT functions.



Unfortunately, an Edge EZ uses the combo sensor connection to fool boost and such and this part would not install correctly on your industrial engine.

The Rail pressure harness connection is the same however on both the industrial and DCX versions.



The TST box connections would work physically, but the cam sensor reads less lobes on the cam extension on the ISB02 engines.

I would call around and ask different vendors, probably starting with TST and Edge, BullyDog etc.

 

[nickleinonen]

that heavy truck version of the isbe also might have the egr plumbing mess on it along with the VGT charger... at school, we had one in the engine lab with the vgt and egr... with that vgt charger, the outlet on the turbine side was like 3" v-band type... high idle on that engine is 2600rpm vs the ±3300rpm the dodge version turns. .

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

. . . and it might have the rear-mounted geartrain with the CP3 at the back?

 

[jwilliams3]

Vaughn,

Yeah they do.

 

[NIsaacs]

How come you didn't get the Cummins 8. 3 C-series? Maybe it doesn't come in the F-650 only the 750-850??





"NICK"

 

[Kerm]

I wish I could of got the 8. 3L. I did not even know it was an option when I got this thing. I needed one like yesterday. So, I just bought the one on the lot. Got it for 40k out the door. But, I really need some help makin a little more power! Dose no one make anything for this thing? I need more HP! With wet dirt and my bobcat all my implements and a couple pallets of sod this thing will barely get out of it's own way!!! HELP! I feel like I have to drive a steam roller to work everyday!

 

[DCasten]

There are 8 different models of the ISB. They range from 185 hp to 275 hp. Cummins can turn it up for you but get this ... they will want paid! As with all of the large diesels you pay for Hp/torque as opposed to what engine you have.

e-mail -- email address removed -- and they will answer any questions you have.

 

[Bob Wagner]

Kerm, There will be a box available in the next week or two. The box will add 60 RWHP



No codes, no bs, no funny driving or touchy throttle ... just pure

and smooth power.





stay tuned

 

[lklauder]

"Cummins can turn it up for you but get this ... they will want paid! As with all of the large diesels you pay for Hp/torque as opposed to what engine you have"



I subscribe to the idea that you pay for value rather than for cost. However, I always assumed that Cummins would put a few higher rated components (possibly things like liquid sodium cooled valve stems & stellite valve seat inserts and maybe premium bearings) in the higher rated engines and that for the manufacturer to be able to label a given engine as uprated would would require more than turning a secret knob. Is there any place that details on this question are given?

 

[Kerm]

So Bob who makes this box? I would like to pre-order one. Also, can I just use the same down pipe that is on a regular Cummins. Or, is the turbo outlet size different? How about injectors? Can I use bigger ones? How about a Boost elbo? Can I slap one of them on there? I would Ideally like to be able to get her into the 350 to 400HP range.

 

[Chugiak]

lklauder,

See you local Cummins distributor location. They can tell you based on the CPL (Critical Parts List) and serial number of your engine if there is any upgrade available. You will have to pay a "warranty uprate" fee. After all, Cummins sold the engine at 235 HP, and their warranty expectations are based on that rating. If you change the rating, you change the warranty accrual curve, and they need to be compensated for that. At the very least, I'd expect a re-calibration (~$250-$400), possibly a different turbo, maybe injectors, fuel pump, and maybe camshaft. Give them a call - see www.cummins.com to find you closest distributor branch. They may not be able to uprate, but oyu never know. Good luck . . .



Cheers,

JPH