F1 Mach 2.0's - Very Nice!

[PRout]

Hey forget the clutch, we're worried about our Tri Tip. .

Posted by Bob Wagner:
Hey Joe, Are Phil and Bob on your email list? :-laf :{

Don't worry Bob, after Joe fries his clutch, :-laf :-laf you can be on his e-mail list too.

 

[PRout]

So. . Joe, what's in the pot??

By the way, after you work your clutch deal out, ya might start lookin' for a good tire supplier (that is NOT a vegetarian. . )

 

[Bob4x4]

If I could get Joe to stop short shifting his truck he wouldn't have to worry about his clutch. :-laf

 

[PRout]

:-laf But as long as he can hear it sizzlin' He's happy.

 

[EBung]

PRout how do you like that Amsoil drop in? Have you compared it with a PG7 or K&N? Flow wise, EGTs? I have the PSM also and seems to need more flow.

 

[PRout]

E - Havent compared the Amsoil drop-in style to the others (yet). So far am satisfied with it because Im not hearing the intake noise in the cab hardly at all and it seems to be flowing fine. But, I dont have the air demands your truck has per our sigs. . Did recently remove the tap-wire fueling box and did use it with this air cleaner once just to see, and have never seen the filter miner move at all. That was with the stock HX35 at 38 psi.

Have read some comments of how they plug up and get "uncleanable" after a while, but have maybe 3k at the most on this one and EGT's and flow seem to be fine.

I DO know that I ran an AFE PG7 (BHAF style) and it flowed very well and oil analysis showed it filtered well also. Changed to the Amsoil 4510 Nano type. It flowed about the same when new (no noticeable difference), but for some reason silicone levels have been higher after using nano's. So far, can't be sure as to exactly whet the cause is because have done some injector changes lately, and maybe introduced some silicone into the system that way. . Wear shows very low, so I dont "think" its the air cleaner.

So far the Amsoil drop-in seems to be good and like the "dry" filtering, but will probably compare it to the AFE PG7 some day just to see the difference also.

Sorry couldn't give a better direct comparison - yet.

(just curious if the lube on F1 injectors could be silicone based, that could explain the elevated silicone levels in the oil which would be fine If I knew what was causing it for sure).

Only applied a touch of silicone to the air-horn bolts per the svc manual. Thats all.

 

[EBung]

Thanks P I havent moved my minder either just on the fence about cfm. I have been running a K&N in place of the PG7 and it is louder for sure but EGT wise nothing significant. I do like the quietness over the old Magnum force though.

 

[PRout]

I do like the quietness over the old Magnum force though.

Same here. . That's why i was pretty hesitant about cutting the cowl hole for the PSM mod. Didn't want the noise, but then decided if you don't try it then you'll never know. Could always make a cover for the hole if wanted. After the install, was pleasantly surprised as to how little extra noise there was (at least with this air filter). IMO, its a "keeper" mod.

So are the Mach 2's. Have almost a week of city driving on them now, and they are very well mannered injectors. Does make you want to go to M4's, but the system would be overfueled for the stock turbo. 2's are fine (for now )

 

[Doughboy21kd]

I have a set of DDP. I would love to have a set of Mach 2's to try out and possibly buy. Anyone out there run DDP and switch over to Mach injectors? If so was there a noticable difference or should i wait and buy MAch's when I actually "need" them?

 

[cArNiVaLwOrKeR]

"need" them

I have a set of DDP. I would love to have a set of Mach 2's to try out and possibly buy. Anyone out there run DDP and switch over to Mach injectors? If so was there a noticable difference or should i wait and buy MAch's when I actually "need" them?

I doubt that we ever,"need" them, its more, "we want them, just like most of the wives that some of you may have, they dont "need that extra Handbag, they just want that extra JUNK, just like us...



JoeLee...

 

[PRout]

:-laf:-laf:-laf
Now that's funny. . Don't care who you WERE!

 

[Doughboy21kd]

Ok... Most of my needs are wants. . But when your wife is also reading over your shoulder, what sounds better to her... Much easier to explain when you "need" something over wanting... :-laf



So now that she's not reading over my shoulder... Would it be worth doing Mach's or am i gonna even notice a difference over DDP's?

 

[cArNiVaLwOrKeR]

Ok, teller that you need new injectors because the ones you have don't get as good of mileage that the M 4's will and with the price of fuel on the sharp rise ,it will mean that you will have more MOney for her to burn @ Neiman Marcus or @ Tiffany and Co.

 

[Chief USA]

On a related side topic, on an otherwise stock 2002 HO, should mach 1. 6's cause much if any smoke issues on acceleration? A friend recently installed them in my truck and on test drive with just the Mach 1. 6 injectors it smoked a good bit, like a freight train on full acceleration but I was thinking that was because no boost fooler or performance box was installed. The waste gate was limiting boost to 20 psi like it was supposed to.



We installed an Edge EZ, and now is smoke like 2 frieght trains but a VERY noticable increase in performance. I am going to check the jumper settings on the Edge EZ to make sure they are set for minimum low boost fueling.



Just wanted to ask some other folks out there if they had a similar experince and if this is normal for these injectors and box or do I need to further troubleshoot this problem?



I will say that the performance increase over stock is absolutely amazing. Thanks for any replies and thanks Jim for the injector install and help.

 

[PRout]

On an otherwise stock 2002 HO, should mach 1. 6's cause much if any smoke issues on acceleration?

The waste gate was limiting boost to 20 psi like it was supposed to.

No, they should be pretty clean unless you romp on it before the turbo spins up. It sounds like you are probably correct that your waste gate is probably limiting air. Do, you have anything installed yet to keep the wastegate from opening so soon? Not sure on the HO 2002, but it may be a j-hook that is necessary to allow for more boost. Someone else can chime in on this. .

Otherwise, if there is a problem, they usually turn out to be a boost leak on one of the rubber boots, like a loose clamp, or torn boot. There is a leak test procedure in the threads, but first you need to keep the wastegate from opening until at least 32-34 psi. Some say 35, mine is set to around 37.

Setting the EZ to mild, should be good if youre concerned about smoke since it wont add fuel until a higher amount of boost is detected. If none of the above are the cause, then maybe the map sensor is acting up, but doubt it.

 

[Chief USA]

I forgot to mention that we did install the boost elbow that Edge provided.



I have not put my foot in it all the way yet as the smoke is really heavy. The boost elbow is working because boost now easily goes to 30 psi but I have not given it full throttle yet. No leaks I am aware of and the CEL codes.



When the weather clears off I am going to verify the jumper setting on the Edge is set to minimum low boost fueling.



The other possibility I was thinking of is that perhaps these may not be 1. 6's? I sent an email to Formula 1 Diesel and asked if there is any way to identify the injectors by markings on the injector or boxes. I guess I was considering the possibility that the wrong (larger that 1. 6 injectors were sent to the original owner. Anyone had this happen?



How much do the larger injectors smoke in any in an application similar to mine?



In stock condition, everything worked as advertised. With the only change being the Mach 1. 6 injectors, the smoke became noticable even at boost pressure well below 20 psi. The Edge EZ and boost elbow were install at the same time. During the test drive the smoke was 2 or 3 times what it was with just the injectors.

 

[Chief USA]

Just wanted to follow up on this. I checked the Edge EZ jumper setting and it was indeed set for minimum fueling at low boost. I also called up Edge Products and verified the serial #'s and production date of the Edge module to ensure it was the correct box for my truck. It was.



The rest I will have to admit with a bit of red faced embarrassment is that I again noted that the "filter minder" was set at about 50% air flow restriction. The first time this happened after the mods I thought perhaps this was normal since the turbo hit at least 30 psi. I checked my service records and to my embarassment and schagrine that air filter has been in my truck since March of 2005. I had always cleaned it up good at each oil change and the filter minder never set so I figured it was good to go. I thought 3 years was long enough and replaced it.



Long story short is that the smoke issue is greatly reduced when you have a clean and servicable air filter installed. (Duh! Thank you Captain Obvious!)



With the new air filter installed the boost pressure easily exceeds 30 psi boost (that is what I saw at about 3/4 throttle) and the huge billowing smoke trail was reduced to more of a grey haze under hard acceleration. Oo.



I am gonna have to "recalibrate my right foot and driving technique as I used to be able to loaf around at 1200 rpm in any gear and just step on the go pedal to accelerate to whatever speed I required.



The Mach 1. 6's with the Edge EZ require about 500 more rpms and a very gradual increase in throttle until the boost rises about about 10 psi and then I can romp on it and not smoke like the USS Hornet after the Japanese attacked it.



Apparently the biggest problem was the "headspace and timing of the operator who is a Noobie to this new found hp and gadgetry.



Now that the smoke issue is better understood and more controlable I am much more at ease driving. I just don't think it is right or responsible to smoke other drivers out like that. Could be someone might be allergic or just have their kids in the car and if the situation was reversed, I sure would NOT like it one bit.



On the other hand, in the event of an aggressive driving tailgater, I can "mash on the go pedal" at low boost and clear out mosquito's for miles if the situation is appropriate. :-laf However, descretion being the better part of valor, I think it best to just chill out and let them on by as best I can.



Overall I am real happy with the power and driveability. I still haven't been able to try a full throttle run through the gears yet due to just not enough road and it is a truck not a Corvette although my 16 year old daughter was HUGELY impressed with the power. Guess I will be raising a furled eye browe when she comes and asks "hey Dad, can I borrow your truck?



On edit: I just wanted to thank my friend Jim for his patience and expertise installing the injectors and Edge as well as a few other things like the guages. He is one hell of a mechanic. It was about 90 degrees and working over that hot engine was like working over a BBQ grill.

 

[Boondocker]

On a related side topic, on an otherwise stock 2002 HO, should mach 1. 6's cause much if any smoke issues on acceleration? A friend recently installed them in my truck and on test drive with just the Mach 1. 6 injectors it smoked a good bit, like a freight train on full acceleration

I can smoke too easily with just the M1. 6 injectors (Smarty set to stock). It's all about boost. Fuel before boost and you will smoke, cleans up when the turbo kicks in. I'm training my right foot to be delicate.

 

[PRout]

Strange, these M2's dont smoke bad at all. Must just be used to rolling on the throttle along with the turbo. This is exactly the the reason I like the stock turbo with 12cm housing. Quick spool-up. But then I'm usually just cruisin' except rolled her on the freeway last night and she spun up quite nicely and was gone. . Sure no need for more torque than that.

 

[Bob4x4]

Strange, these M2's dont smoke bad at all. Must just be used to rolling on the throttle along with the turbo. This is exactly the the reason I like the stock turbo with 12cm housing. Quick spool-up. But then I'm usually just cruisin' except rolled her on the freeway last night and she spun up quite nicely and was gone. . Sure no need for more torque than that.

:-laf I told you so... ... ... ... ... ... ... .



Bob