Here I am

F1 Mach 2.0's - Very Nice!

Attention: TDR Forum Junkies
To the point: Click this link and check out the Front Page News story(ies) where we are tracking the introduction of the 2025 Ram HD trucks.

Thanks, TDR Staff

Edge A2 monitor ?recall?

AFE 12 valve intake sneak peak

Strange, these M2's dont smoke bad at all. Must just be used to rolling on the throttle along with the turbo. This is exactly the the reason I like the stock turbo with 12cm housing. Quick spool-up. But then I'm usually just cruisin' except rolled her on the freeway last night and she spun up quite nicely and was gone. . Sure no need for more torque than that. :D





WELL, as for the 1. 6's, at least on my truck with larger injectors, running the Comp much above level 2 will create unavoidable smoke in varying amounts - depending on actual level selected.



Running around town or on the freeway, even towing the 5er, I leave the Comp on 1x1 for best smoke control. If I switch the Comp off, the smoke is very obvious and difficult to control from stoplights - the lower Comp levels really help provide a significant degree of reduced fueling when combined with larger injectors, or other add-on power boosters such as the Smarty I recently disposed of - for that very reason.



BUT, all that considered, the current truck setup is very tunable and manageable under all the varying conditions I place upon it, and I'm entirely happy with virtually all aspects of controllable power and economy, whether driving empty or towing...
 
Hey Gary, just wondering if your dyno results you have posted in your signature are with just the Comp or with the Smarty stack also? I'm asking because I am not anywhere near your level with just my Comp and we have almost the same setup. Thanks
 
:-laf I told you so... ... ... ... ... ... ... .

Bob
Yes you did and were right as usual. . I'm all :). Thanks again!

Gary, maybe the difference is mine is not the HO and not using any added fueling either. Only running the 'ol Practical Solutions boost fooler kinda tucked towards the rear and blended in with the wiring bundle. Got an elbow on the turbo to keep the gate closed. Am really wanting to hook up the TTPM and use it in mild timing only mode, but trying to keep it appearing as stock as possible. Got the boring looking stock airbox, no chrome tip on the just basic looking 4" exhaust with double mufflers shoe-horned in underneath (14" & 51"). Almost sounds stock even. .

Now to find that dang turbo silencer ring, but haven't seen it in a while ;). Found the c-clip but need a ring... (anyone??) I know there's a ton of 'em out there laying around.

Your modified APPS has never even hiccuped, glad no one can see the "special mods" inside. .
Yep, just a boring, stock 2nd gen. . Maybe some day will have to bomb it and see how she runs with some performance products added. . Oo.
 
Yes you did and were right as usual. . I'm all :). Thanks again!



Gary, maybe the difference is mine is not the HO and not using any added fueling either. Only running the 'ol Practical Solutions boost fooler kinda tucked towards the rear and blended in with the wiring bundle. Got an elbow on the turbo to keep the gate closed. Am really wanting to hook up the TTPM and use it in mild timing only mode, but trying to keep it appearing as stock as possible. Got the boring looking stock airbox, no chrome tip on the just basic looking 4" exhaust with double mufflers shoe-horned in underneath (14" & 51"). Almost sounds stock even. .



Now to find that dang turbo silencer ring, but haven't seen it in a while ;). Found the c-clip but need a ring... (anyone??) I know there's a ton of 'em out there laying around.



Your modified APPS has never even hiccuped, glad no one can see the "special mods" inside. .

Yep, just a boring, stock 2nd gen. . Maybe some day will have to bomb it and see how she runs with some performance products added. . Oo.



Not to ramble off topic but you mentioned the stock air box. I want to stay with my stock air box as well. It seems like injectors and a performance box of some kind go hand and hand with improved air induction flow. I am doing OK with the OEM Fleetgard air filter for the time being. I noticed a few folks were using the Amsoil EAA air filters. I was considering an Amsoil EAA-106. I believe that is the correct size that fits the stock air box. Is anyone using this particular filter? If so, how did it compare to the OEM and other filters such as the K&N, etc. ? Is the Amsoil EAA filter worth the extra money or is the OEM filter still the best bang for the buck?
 
Hey Gary, just wondering if your dyno results you have posted in your signature are with just the Comp or with the Smarty stack also? I'm asking because I am not anywhere near your level with just my Comp and we have almost the same setup. Thanks





The figures in my sig are from the previous Smarty/Comp stack, will update as soon as I get on the dyno again - but guys who have done runs with similar stacks, and have tried both with, and without the Smarty programming loaded, have pretty commonly seen a max power increase with the Smarty of about only 35 HP - which is about the same as what the SS intake Stefen Kondolay has built, and I now have on my truck, provides.



My next most likely dyno opportunity will be in August at the Boise area NW Bombers event.
 
Thanks for the info Gary. I gave my intake to a friend at May Madness and he ordered one that should be here this week so I can put it on. I would love to break 400hp with just the Comp and my setup but don't know if that intake will add that much. We need a few more runs on the rollers to see.
 
Sort of wanted to let this thread fade into the archives, but figured a follow-up was in order.

Just returned from an 1100 mile trip to the High Sierras. These F1 Mach 2 injectors are Very well mannered indeed for 105 Hp inj's. Keeping in mind all added power boxes & software pgms have been removed and only using a boost fooler with turbo elbow to allow full use of the stock HX35/12 turbo, (basically like a stock truck with injectors & boost mods only - no timing advance) no towing but truck started out fairly heavily loaded with 100 gallons of about a B-80 mix of bio & ulsd and about 800 lbs of supplies. Guessing overall weight was around ~ 8500lbs.

Driveability has been very good overall. This included about 800 miles of highway, 200 mountains and 100 miles of off-roading (checking out old mines & ghost towns in the Nevada desert, only "crawling" the dirt roads with some occasional steep climbs, water crossings, some sand, etc. ). These inj's performed very well rock crawling, navigating rocky dry wash crossings, etc. No touchy throttle, but more than enough power for torquing up grades, passing, and probably towing also.

Haven't re-filled the tanks yet to do the mileage calc, but I know this truck and judging from the fuel remaining, mileage was in the ball-park of what the RV275's gave, and didn't baby it on the return trip. It wants to cruise 70 mph and you can hear the VP just purring (easing along) at that speed.

Every time she was fired up cold or hot for that matter, the idle is noticeably even smoother than the already great running bosch RV275's were. This is where Don M's attention to small detail shows. They are smooooth - all the time.

Overall, would probably have been very satisfied with Mach 1. 6's as I did notice a small bit of an egt increase, but without the timing box that may be expected and the increase may be right inline with the power increase, so don't suspect much if any loss in burning efficiency.

One stat I recall was at 4500 ft altitude, 6th gear climbing a long grade, holding about 70 mph (forgot the rpms), held it right at 20psi boost and egt's were about 1075*.

Also never ran it out to see what she would do, but one time gave her a good "roll on to WOT" and she was creeping up just starting to pass 33 psi. 34 is about where she might max out at, maybe 35-36 (doubting 36) on her best day in a 1/4 mile run, period. (Not gonna abuse her verifying it though).

In short, this driver's initial impressions come down to your performance mods and boiling it down to using a stock turbo. I can see why if you tow a lot, 1. 6's may be a slightly better choice due to egt's and smoke/soot output, but the 2. 0's sure make a mostly stock truck run very well as a daily driver, without a lot of extras to support them or compromises in driveability, or mileage. Anything more than these 2. 0's and plan on upgrading turbo, timing settings, and if you still have a stock clutch or auto, they will need to be upgraded as it runs very strong when rolled on.

From my "average user" experience (not drag racing), Mach 1. 6's, 2. 0's or RV275's (best yet - something in between), will make GREAT practical use rigs without a lot of upgrades. The 2. 0's are definitely max, but plain fun to drive. - JMO.
 
You musta got over to Bodie, then?



How was fishing at Twin Lakes?



Sure would be interesting to see that same trip with a decent size RV in tow, especially in regards to EGT. On our RV trip from here, returning just last week, over our own local steep grades, as well as I-80 over the Sierra, driving at the speed limit down in 5th gear to stay behind my BIL's MH (55 MPH - UGgggg, sloooow! :-laf), I saw a max of about 900* - and not much more when pulling my usual 60 MPH over the same route...
 
You musta got over to Bodie, then?

How was fishing at Twin Lakes?

I-80 over the Sierra, driving at the speed limit down in 5th gear to stay behind my BIL's MH (55 MPH - UGgggg, sloooow! :-laf), I saw a max of about 900* - and not much more when pulling my usual 60 MPH over the same route...

Yeah! Sometimes take the putt from Masonic to Bodie to Aurora & out through Lucky boy mine/pass to Hawthorne. . Or up through Dunderberg. Always enjoy the outings and never do seem to get to actually "use" that dang expensive metal detector :rolleyes:. One time did a little "sneeking" and followed the Mono Mills railroad tracks up to the back side of bodie (try that today. . prolly go to jail - and not the little bodie one either :D)

This time wanted to get further out east in the Nevada desert and check out "Simon", Gabbs, Ione, (have been wanting to see them for a few yrs) & whatever else looked interesting. Ended up running out of daylight, but got some good exploring in though.

Fishing: Very good this year. . Most of the people around were limiting out. I had to try the new project out and was doing more experimenting than catching. Set up an RC boat to "tug" the line out to the middle of the lake or any spots that were looking interesting (upper twin - eastern end - north shore). Was more "amusing" than successful. Need to improve upon the "release" mechanism (gonna have to use another channel on the radio next year - hehe), but the ones it did bring in were larger than average, so still ended up with plenty. . (and some twisted up fishing lines that got caught in the props too). Funnn!! - I hope your trip went the way you wanted as well!!

EGT's: You picked up on my biggest concern also. . Going to hook up the timing box to see what kind of difference that REALLY makes. Have a box that will increase timing only, not fuel, so am hoping to see about the same egt's (per hp use) as before the injector swap. That's the next step other than playing with the intake I suppose, but really want to keep the "stock" appearance, hence the stock box w/ black PSM hose. Will re-remove the box after the test.

The problem with the way i did things was changing more than one thing at a time. . Almost always creates more questions than answers. Can't directly answer your question yet other than say compared to the DD3's (100 hp honed types I ran for a couple yrs), these M2's don't run any hotter overall, are cleaner running down low (the turbo spools and pulls better rowing through the gears), are definitely stronger throughout (butt-o-meter again). But(t), before with the honed types, it always felt "sluggish" without a VA or EZ box and now without one of those, that problem is gone. It still is quite responsive. This is without the added timing which supposedly makes the significant difference (plus the fueling). Will find out what difference timing makes soon.

It looks like the major trade-off with added timing is, we theoretically get less egt and better fuel economy/efficiency, but with higher cylinder pressure and rattling noise.

1. 6's are probably a little easier to tow with if you don't want to watch the pyro a lot or have more air. I wanted the power range of 1. 6's without added "can bus" (or tap-wire boxes), so went with the 2. 0's to make up some of the difference of the c-bus box at least. (actually, I think we're only talking about 20 hp difference between the 1. 6's and the 2's)

Currently, the truck is as quiet as it ever has been, you can hear the difference in the VP (sounds like its loafing at cruise). I dont think I've ever been able to tow up hills like you describe down at 900*, but possibly with a combo of our pyros being cal'd slightly different (debatable), and/or the drag, etc of my rig might be a bit higher, and the natural timing, higher inj pressure, efficiency of your HO vs my SO may be factors as well. Just guessing. .

I can say for sure, when I used to tow with the stock turbo and 100hp DD3's, I was watching the pyro and downshifting all the time while pulling grades keeping it at 1200 to 1250 max (which was one reason for trying the 275's, other than mileage). But again, that was with added timing and the BHAF style AFE PG7 filter. Now she's got the stock airbox and timing.

I'm sure there is going to be that timing/egt/mileage/rattle/stress/simplicity trade-off to deal with no matter which power level is chosen. Hopefully, I didn't lose much mileage in removing boxes to simplify things and be able to keep these "cali carbon counters" happy. #@$%!(Awww, Send 'em a plastic owl to keep 'em distracted, where's those servos at? Gotta get ready for next years RC boat fishing. . )

Glad that was a simple question, it allowed for another simple answer :-laf:-laf.
 
Last edited:
Just a short added note, was running the Comp on 3x3 in the grades for that 900* I mentioned, and the absolute MAX EGT I could generate under WOT while towing those grades was 1200* - but wouldn't normally be running that way, other than a passing situation. At a steady 55 MPH in 5th gear, well under 1000*.



Back when I was even more foolish with the '02 in the Sierra I-80 hills, and only the Comp, I'd often see speeds near 70 MPH in OD, and EGT was usually a bit under 1100*, and couldn't be forced much higher under any conditions.



But those speeds were too high, and towing grades in OD can be hard on the 6th gear bearings, so I stopped doing that... :-laf
 
Sure wish I could see temps like that while pulling. That's a great towing combo. .

Agreed, lots of strain with that 27 or 28% overdrive in 6th.

I sort of made a rule of thumb of dropping to 5th and keeping it between around 22-2400 r's (the motor has rarely seen over 2500-2600, guess im kind of a wimp and hate to hear her revving and really dislike putting it on the dyno and loading it down - total strain on the system), but usually shoot for 1150-1200 on the pyro, 1250 max sustained. If necessary, drop it down another gear, but usually try to keep it in about those parameters and dont care who is passing.

I kind of enjoy watching the ferd boys trying to prove how much power they have by making sure they blow by at the beginning of the grades. I wonder if some of them know what a pyro is. Then every once in a while it is kind of nice to just hold a constant speed and roll by them again a few miles later up the grade, then sit back and wait for them to BLAST by on the downhill. . :-laf
 
I kind of enjoy watching the ferd boys trying to prove how much power they have by making sure they blow by at the beginning of the grades. I wonder if some of them know what a pyro is. Then every once in a while it is kind of nice to just hold a constant speed and roll by them again a few miles later up the grade, then sit back and wait for them to BLAST by on the downhill. .



I'm not the only one eh? :-laf:-laf



It's gotten to be a standing joke - I'd have the cruise control set for just below 60 MPH while towing, and a guy - usually in a Ford - would blow by out in the flatlands with a trailer similar in size to ours, and a big grin on his face, and my wife would ask if I was gonna let him get by with that... I'd point out that there were some good grades up ahead a few miles, and we'd likely be seeing that Ford again.



Sure enough, about halfway up the next grade, and with my CC still set, and me relaxing in the driver seat, we'd start gaining on the Ford, and eventually scoot right past, as he'd continue to slow down - funny thing, that earlier smile on the guys face wasn't there any more... :-laf



BUT, as you said, once on the downhill side, here he'd come by again - but usually wouldn't even look our way as he went on by. ;)
 
Ok, Its all good now. .

It looks like the added timing alone reduced EGTs roughly 10% at cruise.

On the same stretch of highway after almost a week of commuting (off hours lately so no traffic), same speed, different numbers with & without timing. .

Before (stock timing): 65 mph - ~1750 rpms - 4. 75-5. 0 psi boost - 700* egts

After (added timing only): 65 mph - ~1750 rpms - 4. 25 psi boost - ~/-650* egts (actually, with the old AFE PG7 intake used BHAF style it was more like 600-625 on the egts, this stock modded airbox runs slightly warmer, except on a hot day under load, then you can see the difference using outside air. )

The results with timing are what I was used to seeing with the RV275s with timing also so am now convinced these mach injectors are about in the same efficiency range as the RVs.

As far as mileage goes, so far almost no change from the RVs which is good considering the extra pulling power they provide, without any added boxes.

Note: Mach 2s & a TTPM box make a pretty good running combo. Hate to remove the box, but trying to keep things as simple as possible, all stock in appearance under the hood, and it runs well with the injectors only anyways. . Added: Also, its more lopey with timing and the rattle is louder. I liked it quieter. .
 
Last edited:
Back
Top