Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) fan clutch question

[Mhannink]

just took a look maybe i didnt go to the same place that mike went to; i didnt see the kit he is talking about, but i did find this



Horton Vehicle Products | Horton



the third clutch down from the top looks like the perfect one and even says dodge. all thats left is a fan and the switches.



mike's right that was a hell of a find. thank you very much

 

[mwilson]

just took a look maybe i didnt go to the same place that mike went to; i didnt see the kit he is talking about, but i did find this



Horton Vehicle Products | Horton



the third clutch down from the top looks like the perfect one and even says dodge. all thats left is a fan and the switches.



mike's right that was a hell of a find. thank you very much

The kit is no longer available from what I can find tonight, however the manual shows what we have been wondering about all day for the A/C controls.



Try going in this way, after you go in once it will take you right back in.



Horton Login



Then select "Work with no log-in". .



Then down in the left is "Technical Literature"



Then find the EC450 section,



Then the 3rd book down is the Dodge kit that they used to have, Click the "PDF" under that third book to open it up.

 

[Mhannink]

Fan clutch is still available as Horton Part Number 996018, threads right on to the left hand stub on the pulley. Show the fan as no longer available.

I will call Horton tomorrow to se what the story is and if there are any of the small parts left.



Mike.

tried your back door way and got it saved it to the comp so ill always have it. that thing is absolutely perfect too bad its discontinued. they must not have sold enough. i wonder if we can get the parts together though. whats really needed is the a/c tee. the rest we can probably source from someone. im getting really excited now, this could be really good for all the 12 valve folks like me who want to remove the parasitic loss of the fan when its not needed but cant go to electric fans cause its not rated high enough gcw. plus i just want the override option. i find it works great in the big trucks for helping you slow down. though i might wear the clutch out pretty fast if i do that.

 

[Mhannink]

so did a little leg work and found a source for the switches. Index Sensors & Controls, Inc. they have both ac and coolant temp. the only thing left really is a fan. mike is that dodge app clutch 500 bucks like the other first horton you found of the fl60 vin? also if you can source a fan whats the cost going to be on that?

 

[mwilson]

so did a little leg work and found a source for the switches. Index Sensors & Controls, Inc. they have both ac and coolant temp. the only thing left really is a fan. mike is that dodge app clutch 500 bucks like the other first horton you found of the fl60 vin? also if you can source a fan whats the cost going to be on that?

Mark,

I have four points that I am going to check on today with Horton...



1) Is the 996018 fan clutch still available??

(Freightliner does not have any in stock).



2) Are the harness assemblys still available???

(Shadrach's post from the fan thread showing them with Horton part numbers rather than the Dodge numbers shown in the manual is a good sign)



3) What are the dimensions of the discontinued fan blade? Was it plastic or steel?

(In hopes that I can match something up from Borg Warner or another blade vendor)



4) Can Horton give me the vendor and the part numbers for the tee and any other critical items?

(I doubt that Horton produced that tee, they most likely found a vendor that made them already)



Let's see what I can get out of them at lunchtime today. If it is discontinued stuff then there should be no harm in releasing info.



Mike.

 

[Mhannink]

sounds good mike, i really appreciate the help on this you have done more then i would have asked, and taken this farther then i would have thought. thanks again. cant wait to hear what you find.

 

[HEMI®Dart]

The guys that have the Horton's say they rarely kick in.

 

[Mhannink]

The guys that have the Horton's say they rarely kick in.

as in not as often as the should or cause the fan isnt needed that often?

 

[mwilson]

as in not as often as the should or cause the fan isnt needed that often?

Fan isn't needed that often in the summer unless the A/C is on or when towing, in the winter never.



I will completely remove the fan blade and clutch on the '97 next month for the winter and hang it on the garage wall. Seriously.



Mike.

 

[mwilson]

sounds good mike, i really appreciate the help on this you have done more then i would have asked, and taken this farther then i would have thought. thanks again. cant wait to hear what you find.

Still working on this, have called Horton once, and am going to call again before I go home.



Mike.

 

[Mhannink]

Fan isn't needed that often in the summer unless the A/C is on or when towing, in the winter never.



I will completely remove the fan blade and clutch on the '97 next month for the winter and hang it on the garage wall. Seriously.



Mike.

im curious what effects do you see from removing the fan and clutch? fuel mileage? power?



my cousin and i are in a debate as to the affect the fan and viscous clutch have on those things. he doesnt believe flexalite's claims and i think they have some credance. hence my looking into the mag clucth, cant run the electrics cause im too heavy sometimes and dont want the headaches.

 

[mwilson]

im curious what effects do you see from removing the fan and clutch? fuel mileage? power?



my cousin and i are in a debate as to the affect the fan and viscous clutch have on those things. he doesnt believe flexalite's claims and i think they have some credance. hence my looking into the mag clucth, cant run the electrics cause im too heavy sometimes and dont want the headaches.

The reason for removal in the winter is to help with engine and cab temperature.



The cooling system on these trucks has such a capacity that on a sub-zero morning running 75mph empty down I-95 the thermostat won't even open, might see 165 degrees after a half hour or so.



Removing the fan blade and clutch keeps the precious heat where it's needed, namely on my feet!:-laf



I can get away with it up here, other areas of the country probably not.



Mike.

 

[mwilson]

Still working on this, have called Horton once, and am going to call again before I go home.



Mike.

Ok Mark,

Here is what I have so far...



The elusive fan kit from Horton is as hard to find as the Holy Grail...



The fan clutch itself was made in Japan, not assembled here. I have even called the Horton factory in Britton, SD to see if they had parts enough to assemble a 996018. They do not.

The harness and tee are long gone as well. I think a feller can make the harness no problem but the stupid tee is a b****.

I have tried Polar parts, Red Dot, Parker, can't figure out yet who made that for Horton.

I am a long ways from giving up, going to revisit the set-up from the 2nd vin that you provided. Horton can at least put one of those together.



Now I also called Turbo Auto Diesel in Phoenix as Horton referred me to them the same way as the fan blade post that you found.



They have all the parts on the shelf except for the blade itself which they can make up themselves when they need one.

I asked about the A/C control issue and they told me a switch and other parts were included but should really check with a gentleman named Ken who will be out until next Wednesday.

Asked for a price and I was quoted $1108. 15.

Phone Number is 888-431-2792



That is at least an option and if nothing else gives us an idea how building one piece by piece would compare pricewise.



I think you can do it this way with some patience and research a little cheaper if everything can be found.



Mike.

 

[cerberusiam]

im curious what effects do you see from removing the fan and clutch? fuel mileage? power?

Like anything else, they vary with use and driver.



The fan in full lockup is supposedly around 20-25 hp of loss. Translating that to an efficiency savings is tough anyway you want to try it, too many other factors.



Trying to source a comparable priced setup that functions as well as the OE just doesn't seem to be viable. Everything has some tradeoffs so it all amounts to what you want to live with.

 

[HEMI®Dart]

Fan isn't needed that often in the summer unless the A/C is on or when towing, in the winter never.



I will completely remove the fan blade and clutch on the '97 next month for the winter and hang it on the garage wall. Seriously.



Mike.

Mike, I do the same thing. Running fanless is one of the BEST things I've ever done!

 

[Mhannink]

Like anything else, they vary with use and driver.



The fan in full lockup is supposedly around 20-25 hp of loss. Translating that to an efficiency savings is tough anyway you want to try it, too many other factors.



Trying to source a comparable priced setup that functions as well as the OE just doesn't seem to be viable. Everything has some tradeoffs so it all amounts to what you want to live with.

i understand that there are a lot of variables. ive been a mech for 5 years and have extensive training in the industry. i am currently studying for a b. a. in mechanical engineering. i know its tough to translate the removal of the fan into effiecency. however a truck with one driver over the same route with and without the fan will eliminate many of the variables. im not looking for scientific fact here just seat of the pants readings that give an idea. does it feel like the truck has a little more get up and go? is the fuel mileage better? maybe egts are lower. who knows i want real life results from the fan removal.



i dont know how much power the fan takes to run. in fact i think the formula for that has to be run through a computer cause of the volume of calculations that all have to be done at once is too high. also again those variables. how much power does the fan take completely disengaged. it has to take some since its turning all the time, how much power does it take fully locked, and everywhere inbetween. flexalite claims that 27 horsepower is freed up with their fans. im wondering is that 27 constant drag which is going to be what burns more fuel, or is it fully engaged, that would make the electrics for less worth while.



as for sourcing something that compares to the oe, that is not my intent here. i would like something that; at least for me, is better. i would rather not turn my fan all the time if i dont need it, but if the people that remove the fan during winter dont see any noticeable difference in their trucks paticuraly fuel mileage then it may not be worth it. as for the cost if i can net higher fuel mileage from a on/off type fan clutch then eventually it will pay off, only question is how long.



so mike and hemidart, i understand the reasons for removing the fan. im curious as to what if changes do you guys notice with the fan off. i would think especially the first tank or two of fuel since the weather will be as consistent as one would probably get for such an experiment. im looking for fuel mileage, sop power, egt's maybe, any differences you might notice with the fan off

 

[Mhannink]

Ok Mark,

Here is what I have so far...



The elusive fan kit from Horton is as hard to find as the Holy Grail...



The fan clutch itself was made in Japan, not assembled here. I have even called the Horton factory in Britton, SD to see if they had parts enough to assemble a 996018. They do not.

The harness and tee are long gone as well. I think a feller can make the harness no problem but the stupid tee is a b****.

I have tried Polar parts, Red Dot, Parker, can't figure out yet who made that for Horton.

I am a long ways from giving up, going to revisit the set-up from the 2nd vin that you provided. Horton can at least put one of those together.



Now I also called Turbo Auto Diesel in Phoenix as Horton referred me to them the same way as the fan blade post that you found.



They have all the parts on the shelf except for the blade itself which they can make up themselves when they need one.

I asked about the A/C control issue and they told me a switch and other parts were included but should really check with a gentleman named Ken who will be out until next Wednesday.

Asked for a price and I was quoted $1108. 15.

Phone Number is 888-431-2792



That is at least an option and if nothing else gives us an idea how building one piece by piece would compare pricewise.



I think you can do it this way with some patience and research a little cheaper if everything can be found.



Mike.

is that kit something they keep all the time or just have one left that never sold?

 

[cerberusiam]

however a truck with one driver over the same route with and without the fan will eliminate many of the variables. im not looking for scientific fact here just seat of the pants readings that give an idea. does it feel like the truck has a little more get up and go? is the fuel mileage better? maybe egts are lower. who knows i want real life results from the fan removal.

Except for the differences in temp and air density, you could probably control the others. If your amient conditions did not change with the seasons then you could eliminate more variables and get close.



Pretty sure the 20, 25, and 27 HP were developed on a dyno but thats again at the top of the rpm range and likely the fan 100% locked. How much at 2000 rpms on 70 degree day? Not sure it can be claculated with an efficacy.



Trying measure mileage difference in th winter fan on\off is hit or miss too because the ambient has so much to do with the efficiency. Likely, without the fan the engine gets warmer and more efficiency because it is not loosing as much heat thru the cooling system. Can't attribute that directly to the fan.



As far as SOP, I have not been able to tell the difference in power. Have not run it long enough in enough different conditions to tell if there is a benefit either. Others claim differently but without some solid facts and controlled test, its still just an opinion.



Up to you want you want to believe and figure is the best.

 

[mwilson]

Maybe I can get some good data for you the very first few tankfuls after removing the fan and clutch.





I will tell you that up here in the Great White North any fuel mileage gains from the fan removal will be negated almost immediately as the fuel is cut in stages depending on the predicted temperatures to improve cold weather flow, that of course lowers the Cetane rating, which results in decreased power and fuel mileage.



Mike.

 

[mwilson]

is that kit something they keep all the time or just have one left that never sold?

Sounded like they keep them all the time, said that they still have some demand for them.



I have just been out pestering my Snap-On guy to see if he could find any M-12 shrader test tees,,,,nothing yet.

I suspect that if I bite on the $300. 00 hammer and the "every punch ever made" kit that he is trying to sell me he might be more helpful... ... ... ... :-laf



Mike.