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Archived FASS DDRP 02 Installation Problems

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Archived wont rev past 1800 when driving

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1998. 5 Dodge 2500 CTD 5 Speed NV4500 Manual Stock 8' Bed 4x4



Gentlemen:



Sorry to be back so soon. I am installing a FASS Direct Dodge Replacement Pump 02 for my truck. It is sitting in my driveway as we speak. I have several questions:



1) I want to install the in-line fuel filter further back on the fuel line---not the 8" as suggested by FASS. It is easier to install and change further back. Will this be a problem???



2) On instruction 6. 0 of their install booklet, it says to use the existing fuel inlet banjo bolt and 2 washers. I assume that the washers go one on either side of the banjo and not stacked directly under the bolt head. Am I correct???



3) I am confused about the support bracket for the inlet fuel line to the pump. Under the old installation, the bracket sat on top of the main support bracket for the pump and was held in place by a separate bolt. In the FASS booklet, they speak of aligning the support bracket with a 10-32 screw as you loosely tighten the inlet banjo bolt into the pump. Ok, I did this. But what will hold this support backet in place??? Ether?



For items 2 and 3, they fail to mention that you must disconnect the inlet fuel line at the quick disconnect fitting. Still, I see nothing to hold that incoming fuel line support bracket in place.



I am sure lots of people have experience for these items since I have S/N 19,000 and change. Help!



Mark Young

Fair Oaks, CA
 
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Gentlemen:



Quiet night tonight. I am going to call FASS first thing in the AM and get some answers to my questions. I don't consider them major but I have been burned by leaks or unusual wear and tear by not clearly understanding instructions.



I will post what I learn tomorrow and comment fully on the installation. I want it to benefit someone else when installing a DDRP.



I'm keeping my fingers crossed that I will have the pump functioning tomorrow. I do not like it when that truck is not running. Even when I do not drive it every day, I want it ready to go on a moment's notice. (I can't even tell you how often it has been used for unplanned trips. )



M. Young
 
1. You should be OK. Put it where it is convenient and you can keep it secured (does not flop around while driving).

2. You are correct, 1 washer on both sides of the banjo fitting.

3. I would presume that after you loosely tighten the banjo bolt, then you should be able to tighten up the support bolt.

EDITED TO ADD - Instructions with pictures as seen on http://www.genosgarage.com/installation_instructions/FASS_DDRP02.pdf


8. While tightening the inlet banjo bolt, hold the fuel line support
bracket firmly against the top of the pump motor. Following this
method of assembling the fuel line to the inlet port of the DDRP will
help insure against the loosening of fuel fittings.
 
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Gentlemen:



Ok, the pump is installed and the truck is running. It took several "bumps" of the starter to get fuel pressure but once I did, the truck started immediately. I obtained about 13. 5psi at idle and it has remained at 13. 5 psi. Upon acceleration, the pump drops to about 10. 5-11. 0 psi and will hold 12 psi at cruise.



Here is my general commentary on the installation and the product after about 1. 5 hours of driving:



1) The unit is not a pure "direct replacement" pump for the factory Carter model. The adjustments are not overly painful but it can be a bit confusing if you are looking for a pure swap of the Carter pump.



2) The unit that I installed was manufactured on December 7, 2010 and differs from the installation instructions from Geno's Garage (courtesey of Mr. Sticks and the post above). FASS now wants you to install a small in-filter on th intake fuel line about 8" back from the banjo fitting on the incoming side of the pump. It is not impossible but the line has a soft rubber sleeve covering with the fuel line itself being a hard plastic. You have to cut carefully and work carefully when installing this filter. Be sure to note the correct direction of the filter. The line is not a soft rubber like fuel line. There are no good opportunities for placement of the in-line fuel filter since the fuel line become solid metal all the way back to the fuel tank. Be sure to place the filter with the correct end for fuel "in" and "out".



3. To get to the banjo bolts on the old pump and install the new pump and banjo bolts you do need six fingers and a couple of eyeballs on a string but one can do it. I found the best way is to get a soft pad to place on top of the engine area so that you have a soft place to put your knees. You really need to be on top of the engine so you can lean down to the pump. I borrowed the dog's bed with a couple of rag towels underneath to prevent oil, acid and grease from getting on her bed. (PLEASE--Do this only after the engine has cooled. Expect to get grease and diesel fuel on your clothes. )



4. The old pump is held in place by 1/2 inch nuts (1998. 5 model), not 10 mm bolts. It takes a 1/2 open end/box wrench to do the job--not 10 mm, not 11 mm, not 12 mm, not 13 mm. The metric wrenches will not work on these nuts. The banjo bolts are 17 mm.



5. When you go to install the new pump, FASS wants you to use two banjo washers. One washer each should go on either side of the banjo fitting, not two stacked next to the bolt head. The instructions are not clear on this point even though most mechanics would recognize the need to place a washer on each side of the banjo fitting. Be sure to lubicate the inlets of the new pump as described by FASS.



The Cummins banjo washers are nicer and easier to use than the six that FASS supplied. The Cummins washers have soft rubber like internal diameter and so they "stick" to the banjo bolt. This makes the job of connecting the fitting, bolt and washers much easier--I dropped two FASS washers never to be found. (Geno's Garage sent two Cummins banjo washers taped to the top of the box. ) The washers cost about $1. 18 each from Cummins.



6. The photos in the installation manual show the new pump out and the incoming fuel line disconnected at the quick connect/disconnet fitting. You can do this but you need to be comfortable disconnecting this fitting without damage. It's an awkward reach to to the line.



7. One of the most confusing instructions of the install is the placement of the support bracket for the incoming fuel line and banjo assembly. The original install has the support bracket bolted to the top of the main pump/engine bracket with a 10 mm bolt. With the new pump, the support bracket lies in the hollowed-out spot of the motor pump bracket and the pump itself. THERE IS NO BOLT THAT HOLDS THE SUPPORT BRACKET TO THE PUMP. The banjo bolt now holds the fuel line and its support bracket. The 10-32 machine screw is for alignment only although I could not determine its value. The bolt hole on the support bracket is bigger than the entire head of the machine scew. Still, after bolting the incoming fuel line with the banjo bolt, the support bracket should lie flat and flush to the machined out spot above the pump motor.



8. I installed the pump in the following order: A) Install the rear banjo bolt--finger tight only. B) Use one 1/2 bolt and hold the new pump under the attachment bracket and start the threads. Finger tight only. Then loosely install two rear bolts for the pump and tighten snugly. C) Tighten the rear banjo bolt. (If you have any idea how to get a torque value on this bolt, let me know. ) D) Finish one end of the outlet rubber hose (supplied by FASS) with the banjo fitting. You will have to press the fitting in place. I used the top of a 4' plastic ladder to press the hose down on the fitting. It goes on with the described lubrication in the instructions and a bit of "elbow grease". E) Loosely fit the hose with a banjo bolt to the outlet port of the new pump and measure the required length. Cut to fit. F) Remove the hose and fit the fuel filter end of the line with its banjo fitting. Press on securely as the other fitting end. G) Connect the newly created hose to the outlet port of the pump and the inlet port of the fuel filter housing. DO NOT FORGET THE BANJO WASHERS! Tighten both banjo bolts with the 17 mm wrench. H) Go back to the motor support bracket and remove the outer most bolt. Place the grommet clamp for the wiring harness to the pump in the clamp and bolt down with the pump bolt. Tighten securely. I) Connect the wiring to the new pump. J) Clean up the engine area and check you work. Verify that you have tightened all bolts. Remove the dog bed and give back to dog. Apologize to the dog. K) For the 1998. 5 Dodge, I had to "bump" the starter about 5 times in order for the fuel pressure guage to register fuel. You just touch the the starter and get out to listen for the pump running. The new pump is very quiet. L) With luck, the engine will start. Get out and check for leaks as the engine is running. M) Go for a test drive and check fuel pressures under load--assuming you have a fuel pressure guage inside your cab. N) Come get back to your shop and check for leaks under the hood---again. O) You are done for now.



My truck is a 1998. 5 with a 5 speed manual transmission. It was built in May, 1998. Your truck may vary depending on model year. Good luck.



I am not a mechanic so if I left anything out or if you have further question, give FASS a call. They are very helpful. If someone else has better techniques, be my guest. Some have suggested freeing up the fuel filter housing to give better access. Thats ok too. Just have enough banjo washers to reconnect any fitting that you may free.





I am not happy with the psi's that I am getting but the truck is driveable and I will trouble shoot the issue over the next several weeks. FASS is already sending a new spring but I am going to change fuel filters and maybe explore any issues with the fuel tank. Thank for your help. Hope this helps someone else.



Gotta run. The truck is needed somewhere else.



Mark Young
 
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FASS /AirDog question:

Does one of those setups replace, or simply supplement the OEM pump and filter? My application is a '98 12-valve, so I've got the engine-mounted lift pump, PrimeLoc and P-pump.

I'd like an electric pump that pushes filtered fuel straight to the injection pump, nice pressure control,and a real simple return-line, and the more convenient the filter location, the better.

I love the PrimeLoc, but it's bulky, in the way, and still depends on a good seal on the OEM filter-head. Lots of unnecessary places to begin leaking over time.

I hate leaks.
 
Gentlemen:



Update: I will be driving the truck to the mountains on Sunday with weather permitting. I will be operating from sea level to about 2,600' in elevation towing a trailer so I will have time to evaluate the FASS DDRP in action. I will advise of performance. (I will be taking the old Carter pump with me along with all necessary wrenches just in case. )



To Mr. Metzger: If my memory serves me correctly, the 98 12-valve has a mechanical lift pump that operates off some type of cam lobe. I am not so sure that you want to get involved with these electric pumps unless you have a specific need or problem. Do the mechanical pumps present that much of a problem?



M. Young
 
The mechanical pumps are more reliable than the electric, but the pressure and surges are too much for the VP. Lots of modifications need to be made to accommodate a block mounted mechanical pump on a 24v including a new camshaft that has the pump lobe.



MAYoung - 2600'... HA! I live at 5800', and 12k is a mountain pass. :)



At the bottom of the Genos instructions, there is a note about the pressure relief spring and an update kit to increase the fuel pressure. If you are dropping to 10, I would look into getting your pressure bumped up at least another 5psi.



As a mechanic by trade, I forget how some things that I can do by brail can be a little overwhelming for the shadetree DIY people. You did a good job with the writeup and the issues you encountered.



You want to talk about hot and uncomfortable, try doing a rush VP44 and transfer pump replacement on a truck fresh off the highway in July. I drew the short straw on that one at my old work. Had to have the truck back on the road in 1. 5 hours.
 
The mechanical pumps are more reliable than the electric, but the pressure and surges are too much for the VP. Lots of modifications need to be made to accommodate a block mounted mechanical pump on a 24v including a new camshaft that has the pump lobe.

Metzger - Stick with what you have. I am not a 12 mod guy, but I don't think there are really any transfer pump issues on modded trucks. That inline P-pump is near bullet proof, and is capable of running just fine without a transfer pump on a stock truck. Not advised, but they do run.

MAYoung - 2600'... HA! I live at 5800', and 12k is a mountain pass. :)

At the bottom of the Genos instructions, there is a note about the pressure relief spring and an update kit to increase the fuel pressure. If you are dropping to 10, I would look into getting your pressure bumped up at least another 5psi.

As a mechanic by trade, I forget how some things that I can do by brail can be a little overwhelming for the shadetree DIY people. You did a good job with the writeup and the issues you encountered.

You want to talk about hot and uncomfortable, try doing a rush VP44 and transfer pump replacement on a truck fresh off the highway in July. I drew the short straw on that one at my old work. Had to have the truck back on the road in 1. 5 hours.
 
To Mr. Metzger: If my memory serves me correctly, the 98 12-valve has a mechanical lift pump that operates off some type of cam lobe. I am not so sure that you want to get involved with these electric pumps unless you have a specific need or problem. Do the mechanical pumps present that much of a problem? M. Young





That's the compromise question. The only time the mechanical pump becomes a real danger to the engine is when the diaphragm ruptures and dumps fuel into the crankcase. I'd just like to simplify the maintenance, and it seems like a better idea, having twin filters, and forced-flow back near the tank, where those filters would be in a less-cluttered area
 
Update On FASS DDRP 1998. 5 Dodge 2500 4x4 NV4500 Quad Cab, Long Bed



Gentlemen:



After driving and towing with the new DDRP on my truck, it appears to be holding the 13. 5 psi at idle and 10. 5-11 psi under load. It cruises at 12 psi according to my Auto Meter guage. I was towing a horse trailer with two horses and two riders along with their gear and the pressure never dropped below 10. 5 psi for the entire trip up to about 2,600 in altitude.



Yes, I know that to really test the pump that I should operate at no less than full CGVW to about 10-12,000 feet. Although I regularly hit 8,000+ feet in the Sierra Nevadas, the truck still has to be bulllit proof at even modest altitudes. Breakdowns are not an option with 2 girls, two horses and crowded Califorina roads. (Throw in a 100+ degree day for extra fun. )



I am still waiting for the replacement spring from FASS. I will advise on pressures after a new spring. I am looking for more psi without having to remove 1/2 the fuel system.



A few other comments: FASS has a strict warranty policy so if your pump goes down, you have to send the down unit in for repair. Then wait. You really have to have a back-up pump ready to go no matter what.



Second, once you install the unit, its yours. Geno's Garage has a separate sheet explaining this issue but once you get the pump, you really have to make the unit work.



I am not sure their is a way around these last two issues. It does not make FASS an evil company, its just how they do business. Still, at their price, one could buy two brand new Carter pumps and you may get 3 years out of each pump. You may also get one week but mine seem to last 3-4 years.



I should have better fuel pressures. Right now I am getting what a brand new Carter unit would deliver. Carters seems to start loosing pressure right out of the box as they never get better on their own.



More on this project later.



M. Young
 
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Update On FASS DDRP 1998. 5 Dodge 2500 4x4 NV4500 Quad Cab, Long Bed



Gentlemen:



Still working on psi increase. I did get about a 1 psi increase overall after I added a pint of Chevron Diesel Fuel Injector Cleaner. Will see if if holds.



No spring yet from FASS. I will have to call them tomorrow to see if it was mailed.



Attached is a picture of the truck as it sits today, February 6, 2011 and at 206,784 miles. The truck was purchased new in May, 1998. It takes a better picture than it looks given all the maintenance items I am working on:



New windshield

Crankcase ventilation system (Enviroguard by Fleetguard)

New rear drum brakes

Rust removal on the driver's side door

Build up of driver's seat cushion

Vacuum pump leak repair--if necessary.

New protective seat covers

Miscellaneous dents and ding removal



P. S. --It was about 75 degrees today in Northern California (Sacramento). I have no idea what people in Wisconsin or Maine have to complain about.
 
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Update



Gentlemen:



The new spring and ball have arrived from FASS on Friday. I am in the middle of the rear brake replacement so you will have to wait a few more days for news. I am very curious if it works but I need to get it moving first. You can see the brake thread under 2nd Generation/24 Valve Non-Engine/Non-Transmission section.



M. Young
 
I just installed the ddr-02 fass pump, and have 20 + psi at idle and at wot the pressure never drops below 14 psi, i had purchased a vulcan relocation kit the last time i changed out the lift pump which was two years ago and reused it for the fass, i believe having the lift pump closer to the fuel tank will yeild better fuel presssure and flow, I since ordered the vulcan fass bracket for the ddr-02 its a bit heavier indesign, i also use the 3/8 inline fuel filter before the pump it has a screen in it.
 
I agree with the fass instructions as it is misleading, mine came with a inline fuel filter that was 5/16, all my fuel lines are 3/8 but i had two 3/8 inline filters in stock so i ditched the 5/16 one, I personally suggest relocating the pump to the frame its much easier to maintain and its away from the vibration of the engine and the high heat which can shorten the life of the pump.
 
I am still working on my rear brakes, hub and differential. I will post as soon as I am able to change out the spring. I will proceed with the simple changes first moving on to a relocation effort.



M. Young
 
FASS DDRP-02 Install

Update: Tuesday, March 1, 2011 2:30 PM PST



Gentlemen:



How time flies! This DDRP has been in the truck since February 4, 2011 and I just finished installing a bigger spring and bigger? check ball into the pump.



As always, it was a pain to get to the pump. I lost about 1/2 gallon of fuel to the drip pan plus I put in four new banjo washers. Appears to be leak free.



The fuel pressure gauge now sees a 3. 0 to 3. 5 psi improvement at various throttle positions. I now hit 17. 5 at idle, 15. 5-16. 0 psi at cruise and 14. 50 psi at wide open throttle. I wish that I was hitting the those pressures when it was first installed.



I am going to drive it for a few days and see if I notice any change. Given the location of the pump and original equipment plumbing, I assume that is about it for pressures. Many of you have suggested moving the pump closer to the tank for better pressures but before I do that, I am going to live with this pump as it for a while.



I have no idea why the pump only provided the lower pressures. FASS said that they test to the higher pump pressures but I did not see it in mine upon installation.



Thank you for your assistance. I hope this thread will be of assistance to others.



M. Young

Fair Oaks, CA
 
FASS DDRP-02 Install

Update: Saturday, February 12, 2011

1998. 5 2500 4x4 Long Bed NV 4500 5 Speed 208,000 miles



Gentlemen:



My "gold standard" for the operation of the Cummins engine has always been the "one touch of the key, the engine starts" measure. Normally, the engine starts after just one click of the key.



With the new FASS DDRP-02, the engine starts most of the time with just one click of the key. (No cranking or multiple revolutions of the starter in order to start. ) I do notice, however, that if I touch the fuel pedal or fail to wait a few seconds before turning the key, I will get several revolutions of the engine before it starts.



Question: Is this related to the new pump? What would be the explanation if it is related to the new pump?



No other error codes or mechanical problems are noted.



Thanks in advance.



M. Young
 
It has always been my understanding that the VP44 is ignoring APPS input during startup, as it is cranking with advanced timing and full fuel during startup, until the engine reaches desired RPM. Now I may be confusing this with the older mechanical pumps.

I do know that for some reason the VP does not like high inlet fuel pressure during startup. Don't know why, it just doesn't. Key on, fuel pump primes system for 1 second, then nothing until the engine starts.
 
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