Fass Fuel System

[JTBMC]

Howdy guys,

Is there any updates or other good news reports with the FASS fuel Systems.

Also is every one that has one of these units still confident that this is the way to solve the lift pump problems.

I'm planing on ordering one Monday from Doug over at smokindiesel in WV. but, I want to wait until the new braided stainless line & areoquip fitting kit is ready before taking delivery.

Thanks,TJ

 

[How'dHeDoThat]

Fuel Preporator instead???

I just completed the installation of the Fuel Preporator. Fuel Preporator



This system ROCKS!!!! Yes it was alot of work but it was worth it.



They claim they are the only ones that get the entrained air completely out and that their pump can go 800,000 miles.



After completing the install my truck got sideways excellerating out of a turn. (dry pavement) and I have also noticed that it is quieter running, boost seems to come on faster, and it takes half the time to powerbrake it up.



Also of note here: The Preporator IS available with 10, 5, and 2 micron filtration. Which they claim will go up to 50,000 miles between changes.



This system is ALOT more expensive than the FASS but so far I am VERY pleased with my purchase.



James

 

[BigDaddy]

James,



What kind of pressure are you seeing with this assembly?



Where did you mount it and what diameter lines are you using?



What kind of warranty do they offer?



Come now, do not tease, inquiring minds want to know



Perhaps you would want to do a new post on your installation.



Joe

 

[FastEddie0]

Now, what exactly is the difference between the FASS system and the Fuel Preporator system?



I am just about to purchase the FASS system from Doug down at Advanced Diesel in WV... He just installed my SBC Con-FE this past saturday so I'm ready to build her up more...

 

[JTBMC]

That thing sure looks and sounds just like the FASS system. Do you have any idea on what is the cost of this unit is.

Hey thats great, Doug is preparing one for me also.

My friend Richie will be in Dougs shop again friday for a new Injector pump & the Fass system. The guys at SmokinDiesel are some great guys to do business with.

Richie was seting the 215 214 & 216 Injector pump timing codes and drove to WV from Baltimore Md yesterday evening and Doug waited at the shop for him last night so he could get repaired and back on the road.

Thanks,TJ

 

[Cooker]

Brad from DPP (the creator of the FASS) used to sell fuel preporators. He said the FASS does the same thing only better and cheaper.

 

[JTBMC]

Thats what I thought, It looks very simialar to Brads FASS. Doud & Andy do some wiring harness mods to the FASS that should help also. Mine will be here next week after Thanksgiving I guess.

Thanks TJ

 

[clw1100]

Fass vs Fuel Prep

I checked out the Fuel Prep website and their address is in Missouri, just like FASS. I vaguely remember someone telling me that the Fuel Prep may be a very close cousin to the FASS in regards to how it is designed and who designed it.



All I do know is my FASS w/ 1/2 ID lines is working great. I only have a stock truck for now, but it will never fall below 15 no matter what I do. At idle it stays at 17. 5 Doug at Smokin Diesel does modify the FASS wiring harness to make it use a relay off of the battery for power instead of the standard LP factory power. Thanks Doug - One HAPPY Customer.



Craig.

 

[How'dHeDoThat]

Originally posted by BigDaddy

James,



What kind of pressure are you seeing with this assembly?



Where did you mount it and what diameter lines are you using?



What kind of warranty do they offer?



Come now, do not tease, inquiring minds want to know



Perhaps you would want to do a new post on your installation.



Joe

Sorry all I was out of town and unable to answer this...



The Prep unit comes setup for 8 psi but like the FASS you just change the regulator spring adjustment. I set it at 16 and it will drop to 13 at WOT.



I mounted this unit right behind the rear diff with enough clearance for spring movement. On a shortbed truck it is pretty tuff to put it anywhere else and hide it.



I used 3/8 id line and tossed the factory lift pump and water seperator. The reason for 3/8 line is I came out of the tank 3/8 and if you upsize the line you simply add cavitation to your system. This system is designed to remove air and cavitation but I did not want to add any more. It really makes no sense to go larger line if you are pulling out of the tank at the factory site.





To go into what a few others have mentioned... .



The Prep unit is in fact VERY similar to the FASS and it is not a cousin thing. The Prep is the Father and the FASS is the son and they are involved in some serious litigation over some design issues if I listened carefully enough. Pretty sad really!



I was very tempted to go with the FASS system as it is, in fact, alot cheaper but in the end decided that the PREP unit was a better unit. I do think that if simply replacing a lift pump with reliability is an issue than both will do that.



I also think that it is great that there is both units available and everyone has a choice that will fit their needs.



I won't make any claims for this company but the product delivered several things of note on my truck(and I drove it 12 hours on a trip)



Fuel economy was up a solid 1. 5 mpg

Power was up... noticibly

smoke was down

engine ran quieter - Not mega quieter but noticibly quieter

cold start smoke was less noxious smelling



I am pleased so far with the results.



J

 

[BigDaddy]

J,



Thank you for answering my questions.



Good luck with your "Prep. "



Joe

 

[c-hawk]

Doug at ADT installed my fass system too. I couldn't be happier. 17psi at idle, can't get it below 15, ever. I noticed that my truck ran quieter, and smoother. I only got two tanks in with the Fass before i changed to bigger tires, so I can't comment on the mileage, other than to say it was up for those two tanks. I'm definitely happy with the system so far.



Take care,

Chris

 

[Ncostello]

If removing entrained air in diesel is such a huge benefit (and I'm not saying its not), I wonder why Cummins, who has vast resources and people, haven't done anything more than slap Carters on the sides of engines like the ISB. Money perhaps. But when you look at the more efficient burn and power output... sure sounds cheaper than "redesigning" an engine to meet new requirements.

 

[JTBMC]

Neil,

That is a good point. With the number of lift pump & Injector pump failures you would think Cummins would do something.

Back in October while in Richmond Va. my lift pump was going out and well below 10 PSI at an idle running dual gauges pre & post filter psi, I was told by the Richmond Va. Cummins Parts & Service managers that as low as 5 psi at idle was ok, and I did not need a lift pump. So I bought one any way. Was also told that a P0216 code didnt mean the Injector pump was bad just that a timining failure had occured.

I left woundering what planet they were on.

TJ

 

[barbwire]

Cost

Can anyone here in TDR land give the rest of us an approx. cost of these fuel delivery systems? I did'nt see it anywhere in the PREP unit site. TIA

 

[CEkstam]

Air/vapor in fuel vs engine performance

There seems to be considerable confusion about air in diesel fuel, its effect on the diesel engine and the source of the air/vapor. Let's clear the air!



First,the effect: Air and fuel vapor, as is any gas, is compressible. Because of this, when it is carried into the fuel injector, it delays the pressure build-up which delays the injection. This retarded injection timing effects the diesel just as retarded ignition timing effects the gas engine, slow or spongy throttle, low power, rough idle, excessive exhaust emissions and increased fuel consumption.



Second, the source: Air becomes entrained (suspended) in the bulk of the fuel in the form of tiny bubbles or on the surface as foam by sloshing etc. Additionally, vapor is created when the lift pump is cavitating, or operating at a speed to great for the fuel flow from the tank to completely fill. This is because the flow of fuel from the tank to the engine is driven by atmospheric pressure on the surface of the fuel in the tank trying to equalize or fill the void in the pump as it operates.



Either way, the current filtration and delivery system on your diesel engine is inadequate to remove entrained air or meet the demand of your pump at the higher speeds.



To obtain the level of performance that the diesel engine was designed to deliver, you need a fuel filtration and delivery system that not only removes water and particulates, but also removes entrained air and maintains the necessary pressure flow to adequately meet the needs of the system preventing fuel pump cavitation.



Cummin's Engine Company's Service topic 5-135 explains very well that air becomes entrained in diesel fuel by the mechanical action a sloshing and splashing in the tank.



Caterpillar's Special Instruction 651-1250 points out "normally, No. 2 diesel fuel contains about 10% air in solution, although the air is invisible. "



The history of air/fuel separation begins before 1900. Companies and individuals from around the world have tried (and failed) to separate air from fuel for over 100 years. The patent for the first successful air/fuel separator, Fuel Preporator, was first applied for in 1992. The patent issued in 1994. The sole inventor, Charles L. Ekstam, then developed the first production model of the Fuel Preporator, which was covered by another patent, a CIP Patent in 1998. The patent application for the new smaller Fuel Preporator with the horizontal pump design was filed in 2001. This patent is about to publish and the issue fee is already paid. International PCT filing is covering 117 countries.



MINI NEWS RELEASE: Jefferson City, Missouri



In a Missouri State Court action, which is still in progress, it was admitted by the developer of the FASS, that the FASS "was designed by altering the blue prints to the Fuel Preporator. "



2004 Federal Budget; line 16, $1,750,000. 00 appropriated for Fuel Preporator. Testing to be done by the University of Missouri, Rolla Engineering Department in conjunction with Aberdene Proving Grounds and Ft. Leonard Wood.



California Air Resources Board (CARB) has issued Executive Order G-02-003 allowing the advertising, installation and use of Fuel Preporators on both on-road and off-road compression ignition(diesel) engines.



Marine Engines to 4,000 plus horse power using Fuel Preporator Model FP-450/650 have been certified in compliance with Regulation 13 Annex VI to Marpol 73/78 and obtained American Bureau of Shipping Certification (ABS) .



Tests completed by the University of West Virginia Engine and Emission Lab confirm torque rise off idle double, 103% to 106% per ISO-8178 test after installing the Fuel Preporator.



Fuel Preporator is now manufactured under controlled ISO-9001 Quality Assured Standards



NOTE: This posting is to clear up any misconceptions there may be as to air/vapor in diesel, its source and effect on the diesel engine and a bit of history on air/fuel separation and the Fuel Preporator, etc.



If anyone has questions or comments, please feel free...



Respectfully to all who seek power, performance and efficiency from the diesel engine,



Charles L. Ekstam, Inventor of the Fuel Preporator

 

[CEkstam]

Air/vapor in fuel vs engine performance

There seems to be considerable confusion about air in diesel fuel, its effect on the diesel engine and the source of the air/vapor. Let's clear the air!



First,the effect: Air and fuel vapor, as is any gas, is compressible. Because of this, when it is carried into the fuel injector, it delays the pressure build-up which delays the injection. This retarded injection timing effects the diesel just as retarded ignition timing effects the gas engine, slow or spongy throttle, low power, rough idle, excessive exhaust emissions and increased fuel consumption.



Second, the source: Air becomes entrained (suspended) in the bulk of the fuel in the form of tiny bubbles or on the surface as foam by sloshing etc. Additionally, vapor is created when the lift pump is cavitating, or operating at a speed to great for the fuel flow from the tank to completely fill. This is because the flow of fuel from the tank to the engine is driven by atmospheric pressure on the surface of the fuel in the tank trying to equalize or fill the void in the pump as it operates.



Either way, the current filtration and delivery system on your diesel engine is inadequate to remove entrained air or meet the demand of your pump at the higher speeds.



To obtain the level of performance that the diesel engine was designed to deliver, you need a fuel filtration and delivery system that not only removes water and particulates, but also removes entrained air and maintains the necessary pressure flow to adequately meet the needs of the system preventing fuel pump cavitation.



Cummin's Engine Company's Service topic 5-135 explains very well that air becomes entrained in diesel fuel by the mechanical action a sloshing and splashing in the tank.



Caterpillar's Special Instruction 651-1250 points out "normally, No. 2 diesel fuel contains about 10% air in solution, although the air is invisible. "



The history of air/fuel separation begins before 1900. Companies and individuals from around the world have tried (and failed) to separate air from fuel for over 100 years. The patent for the first successful air/fuel separator, Fuel Preporator, was first applied for in 1992. The patent issued in 1994. The sole inventor, Charles L. Ekstam, then developed the first production model of the Fuel Preporator, which was covered by another patent, a CIP Patent in 1998. The patent application for the new smaller Fuel Preporator with the horizontal pump design was filed in 2001. This patent is about to publish and the issue fee is already paid. International PCT filing is covering 117 countries.



MINI NEWS RELEASE: Jefferson City, Missouri



In a Missouri State Court action, which is still in progress, it was admitted by the developer of the FASS, that the FASS "was designed by altering the blue prints to the Fuel Preporator. "



2004 Federal Budget; line 16, $1,750,000. 00 appropriated for Fuel Preporator. Testing to be done by the University of Missouri, Rolla Engineering Department in conjunction with Aberdene Proving Grounds and Ft. Leonard Wood.



California Air Resources Board (CARB) has issued Executive Order G-02-003 allowing the advertising, installation and use of Fuel Preporators on both on-road and off-road compression ignition(diesel) engines.



Marine Engines to 4,000 plus horse power using Fuel Preporator Model FP-450/650 have been certified in compliance with Regulation 13 Annex VI to Marpol 73/78 and obtained American Bureau of Shipping Certification (ABS) .



Tests completed by the University of West Virginia Engine and Emission Lab confirm torque rise off idle double, 103% to 106% per ISO-8178 test after installing the Fuel Preporator.



Fuel Preporator is now manufactured under controlled ISO-9001 Quality Assured Standards



NOTE: This posting is to clear up any misconceptions there may be as to air/vapor in diesel, its source and effect on the diesel engine and a bit of history on air/fuel separation and the Fuel Preporator, etc.



If anyone has questions or comments, please feel free...



Respectfully to all who seek power, performance and efficiency from the diesel engine,



Charles L. Ekstam, Inventor of the Fuel Preporator

 

[barbwire]

unanswered

this still leaves the cost issue unanswered.

 

[JTBMC]

Is the wiring harness & install instructions for our applications included with the Fuel Preborator

TJ

 

[CEkstam]

Fuel Preporator Installation

The Installation Manual for the Fuel Preporator is generically written for installation on Class 8 trucks. The wiring harness is also designed for the same. The wiring consists of a (green)ground lead. a (red) hot lead, an indicator light and ID plate for the dash. The leads are long and quite easily adaptable to pickups. Future plans include complete installation packages for all diesel pickups. NOTE: We have large Fuel Preporators for the large diesels used in locomotives, ocean going tugs and ships, the 12,900 cu. in. and larger stuff!



Also, because of the BIG truck heritage, the Preporator comes with two heavy duty mounting brackets. Unlike something else that has only one bracket in the middle.



The system includes an indicator light to be mounted in the dash to monitor low fuel pressure output and signal filter change requirements. Although the pressure switch is adjustable, I would suggest that one install a quality pressure gauge in the dash. This will become available in time.



The small Model FP-135A has a high pressure bypass set at 27 psi, this could be de-activated if desired. The factory pressure/flow is set for 10psi output at 80 to 90 gph. Additionally, the Preporator can be easily readjusted to produce much higher pressure output if so desired.



The Fuel Preporator may be a little more expensive but remember, the sweet taste of a cheap price is soon replaced by the lasting bitterness of poor quality.



Fuel Preporator is ISO-9001 Quality Manufactured and approved for sale and use in California by CARB Executive order G-02-003.

 

[WadePatton]

Prices I've seen for the FASS is just under $600. And they claim that is cheap compared to the other one.



I want some before and after DYNO numbers from 5. 9 trucks running 350-500 HP.



It's okay for those of us not selling stuff to quote prices.