Fass Fuel System

[LowFly]

I do not think we are talking about a drastic change in timing. We are talking about milli-seconds in change from the timing information I have gathered from the semi's. I do not think the timing advance boxes take in consideration air/vapor in fuel. Mainly because you never know how much air is in fuel. Take for example a truck that is full of fuel and has been sitting over-night. There is very little air in the fuel, this is a great example for a truck sitting still on a dyno. Compare that to a truck traveling down the road for hours. Big difference in the amount of air in the fuel.



Brad

 

[WadePatton]

timing theory

The whole retard/advance timing thing is predicated on the assumption that enough air is in the fuel to cause the difference.



No one has proven that the stock 24v setup creates air in the fuel. That leaves in tank agitation, which would vary wildly on level of fuel and driving conditions. Say Baha racing with mostly empty tank opposed to highway cruising with mostly full tank. I expect that the most aireated my fuel gets is when I fill the tank--but I've never noticed a difference when pulling away from the filling station.



I think the retarded timing issue, if valid in our application, would only be dealing with fractions of a degree and if Cummins engineers earned their paper, they would have taken this into consideration when developing the injection system.



Another BONE simple test. Set up the 5. 9 engine with a timing light that senses the fuel pulse. Run it and check the ignition timing. Install FASS then check the ignition timing again.

 

[JTBMC]

What size fuel lines are recomended, with the FASS system, and Diesel Dynamics stage 3 injectors, and Edge Comp fueling box.

I am curently running 3/8s ID lines and DD # 1 injectors and Edge Comp, and would like to know what advantage if any, I would see by up grading to 1/2 " ID fuel lines after I install the DD# 3's.

Thanks, TJ

 

[jjohn]

Originally posted by tjlaffite

What size fuel lines are recomended, with the FASS system, and Diesel Dynamics stage 3 injectors, and Edge Comp fueling box.

I am curently running 3/8s ID lines and DD # 1 injectors and Edge Comp, and would like to know what advantage if any, I would see by up grading to 1/2 " ID fuel lines after I install the DD# 3's.

Thanks, TJ

TJ,

I believe I read on one of these posts there was no point going to 1/2 line unless you dropped the tank and increased the pick up tube to 1/2" also.



I believe the theory is the 3/8 tube to 1/2 line would create cavitation.



JJ

 

[JTBMC]

Would I see any performance difference enlarging the in tank pick up tube, or is 3/8's line sufficient to supply the larger injectors.

TJ

 

[LowFly]

As long as the pressure is maintained to the injection pump I do not believe there would be any gain in performance.



Brad

 

[Ncostello]

My setup is as follows:



Stanadyne FM100 30 micron pre-filter

OEM Carter lift pump frame mounted

Stanadyne FM100 5 micron final filter

3/8" Weatherhead J30R7 fuel hose

Fuel tank module has the internal filter fabric removed

One 90 degree Aeroquip elbow at the VP44 (-6AN size)

All other -6 fittings are straight



Upon running the lift pump w/o having it connected to the VP, I emptied fuel in a 5 gallon bucket to purge the air out of my newly installed stuff. I can assure you the fuel delivery is very adequate with 3/8" hose size using the stock pickup port on the fuel tank module. Its 3/8" size also. The fuel stream was solid and could probably hit someone standing 3 feet away from you (If you were aiming at them ). Thats good flow in un-scientific terms. And this flow was occuring at low pressure since it wasn't restricted in any way.



Thus, if you were burning all that flow, you wouldn't make it far on a tank. I cruise with over 15 psi on a regular basis. Loading up on hills or hard pulls will drop it into the 14's with an occasional 13 psi reading.

 

[BillGotthelf]

Wade you have been around here a long time. Until many reputable members put something on their CTD's and test them for a long time nobody believes them. Manufacturers (specific ones shall be nameless but you know who they are) have made claims that are way out of line and others have reputations for being true to their word. I have put my 99 thru many upgrades and have been satisfied with some and ****** at others. In my 110,000 miles on it I have only had 1 lift and 1 injector pump go out. I ordered and recieved a FASS system from Jannetty Racing. I have installed it and am quite impressed by the quality of the unit. When my head and twins arrive I will see how it works. Unfortuanatly I will not have a baseline to go with but even if it did not increase my HP I would have the piece of mind that my diesel (checked by many gauges) was getting all the clean diesel fuel it needed. Something that with the stock system I had much confidence in.

 

[DPS]

Where can the fass system be purchased for the cheapest price?

 

[JTBMC]

Question on electric motor on the pump, if the horizonall position of pump motor gives the FASS longevity over the vertical position, why couldnt some one mount the stock lp side ways and test it.

I have the FASS an am very happy with it.

Dont know about the cheepist price but Doug has the FASS for $589. and up depending on the type of fuel line you choose and type of fittings you want over at Smokindiesel.com

TJ

 

[JTBMC]

I believe that Brad may have a better price on the FASS he sends out as Doug decided to upgrade the wiring harness and to provide an upgraded fitting and fuel line system.

TJ

 

[RAndrae]

its on

well its on- check out my post on the other FASS thread- I AM HAPPY its a nice quality piece I know it will last longer than the stock LP.

 

[PRout]

Are there any pictures of an installed system available?



Is it in a vulnerable location?



Im not worried about a HP gain from this unit. Just dont want to fry a VP-44, and would be nice to be able to add more HP goodies if the VP would hold up.



Thanks.

 

[JTBMC]

They are mounted in front of the rear tire up on the bed cross menber, I am going to build a protective shield for mine and add a mounting bracket due to the amount of viberation the unit does under there at an idle. Im afraid the bracket will break and my pump will fall of some where out in the boonies leaving me stranded.

TJ

 

[Ncostello]

What are you guys doing for heat to the filters? Since the OEM filter has a heater element, and its mounted next to the engine, it would probably not have too many problems. Does the coolant lines actually provide sufficient heat soon enough before you clog a filter with wax in cold weather. Just curions how they are doing in extreem cold.

 

[PRout]

Yep, I sure do love my FASS...



Even while keeping the OEM filter/heater unit inline, set the pressure (measured at the VP) to 13. 5 idle, and still cant pull it below 12 WOT.



SOP dyno shows smoother power across the ENTIRE RPM range.



Gee Wiz, this thing is alot like the preporator, only different.

 

[dsherman]

RE:fuel Preporator

March 19, 2004







I just installed the fuel preporater with some phone help from Charles. What a great guy to talk to. He spent a lot of time explaining how it all works, etc.

It went well. I did not change the fuel tank pick up line but will at a later time with 3/8 or ½ inch line. I also connected the stock fuel filter canister in line with the preporator so I will have a fuel heater. That way I will not wax up my VP44 pump when it is cold. How I know to do this, I spoke to an engineer from Bosch Germany who helped engineered the making of the VP44 pump. Also got lots of other info that I wont get into at this point. Also the preporator filters at 10 microns and our stock one filters at 2 microns and the stock canister does not have much flow restriction. How I know this is I did a flow test on it.

And a BIG thank you to Bill and Steve for the stock filter canisters that they donated to me. And cant leave out 4X4 Bob for all the many lift pumps.

You could also connect in line your stock lift pump and it will flow fine right through it.

Tested that also. So all you FASS guy’s good luck in the winter with no fuel heater! Unless you connected one up with using your heater hose?

I also mounted a max flow kit from the stock filter canister to the VP44 it uses ½ braided SS line and fittings and 3/8 Goodyear gorilla hose lines the rest of the way down to the pump then to the tank. The fuel preporater return line to the tank over flow I used ½ inch gorilla hose and ¾ inch Y with ¾ inch gorilla hose. I mounted ½ inch SS shut off valves with locking handles pre and post of the pump. Great anti theft. I pre filled the filter and water separator and then bleed the system by bumping the starter a couple of times and letting the fuel run into a 6 gal gas can then reconnected to the VP44 and bump the starter again after that started it. It started right up. My psi at idle 14 psi and giving it the go paddle it is 12 psi. It will improve when I replace the pick up tube in the tank to 3/8 or ½ inch lines. Which will be done soon. I noticed when running the motor it doesn’t smell as bad which is clean burning. Smokes less when given the go pedal.

I will update when I put some miles on it. Im off to a good start.

Off to the Dyno right after I install kev's pump.

David







Oo. Oo. Oo. :--) :--) :--)

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Sorry to be a skeptic - but I'll repeat, UNLESS your STOCK setup was pretty sick BEFORE the change, no logical or physical reason why these "seat of the pants" impressions are very likely - maybe some dyno runs, along with before after numbers displaying actual STOCK fuel PSI and power, then numbers AFTER the upgrade would be more accurate and revealing as to what is ACTUALLY happening... Human nature - especially after spending lots of money and expending lots of effort really tends to color our imagination - usually telling us what we WANT to see/hear/feel...



I mean, be happy with what you have spent and done, it undoubtedly is better in quality than stock - but seat of the pants or other non-scientific analysis/claims just don't get it!

 

[Ncostello]

The Fleetguard filter used in 98. 5 and 99 filters are 10 micron. The filters used in 2000 and up are also 10 micron. Aside from the shape... the newer filters hold more grams of particulate contamination. Fleetguard rates their efficiency for 5 micron at somewhere around 88%. They do not filter much in the 2 micron range. You can email Fleetguard and they will email you a total spec sheet on the filter... which also contains some info you wouldn't even expect to find... like the G-force load they will withstand before coming apart. The ISC CAPS injection pump is much less tolerant of "debris" than the VP44. It uses a large spin-on filter (FF 1098) that you are specifically instructed not to pre-fill due to the possibility of getting dirty fuel to the pump. It is also rated at 10 micron 98% efficiency.



Heating the fuel might help the VP44 up there near the engine... but the heater in the OEM canister also prevents the filter from becoming clogged with wax crystals in extreme cold. Thus no heat at all to other filters will only wax them up thus preventing any fuel at all from reaching the stock canister. Just a thought. Better run additive in the cold to help minimize this risk. Just a thought.



Take plain diesel and place it outside overnight when its -10. You will plainly see the diesel gelling and the waxy crystals. Then you'll really understand why they heat the fuel. I added Stanadyne PF to the same diesel and quickly saw a difference.

 

[Warpig]

F.A.S.S.

Just thought I'd post my 2 cents regarding the F. A. S. S. I am not a mechanic, nor do I have any extensive knowledge of the diesel engine. I bought a Dodge ctd after extensive research. I joined the TDR as most enlightened Dodge ctd owners have done. I soon realized that we (24valve owners)have a small problem on our hands. We all know that we have a poorly designed fuel system. The problem has been narrowed down to the factory lift pump inadequately supplying the vp44 with fuel. I did not come to this conclusion by personal knowledge. I have 44000 miles on my truck, and have had no problems with anything. I gained my knowledge from researching this forum. I plan on keeping my truck for many years. I have no performance mods yet, but plan on some in the future. To set things up, I purchased some gauges and air intake system. I noticed that my truck idled at 10 psi fp, and went down to 2 psi fp wot. It was a no brainer for me to purchase a F. A. S. S. next. If I add a box and injectors I will certainly need more fuel. If my truck went down to 2 psi fp at wot with no performance mods, what fp would I have with a box and a good set of injectors? Well, I bought a F. A. S. S. The first thing I noticed is that the truck started easier, and is quieter when idleing. At idle I have 20 psi fp, and at wot I have 20 psi fp. Hopefully this system will serve my truck well for many years. At least I know that when the day comes that I install an EZ comp and a big set of injectors, turbo ect... I will have adequate fuel.



Tim W.