Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) FASS or not?

[SMoules]

A month ago I had my first 0216 code. My truck never reacted any differently before or after the code. I had it cleared and since then never had it come up again. My question is do I run my truck without FASS because the pump might be going out or should I install FASS because that code might have been a one time thing. I only have 32k miles on my truck so the pump is still under warranty.

 

[Joe Mc]

Since you have the Edge Comp you are your own warrantee station - of course that depends on your ste, ste, ste, (darn studder) dealer and if you tapped the VP wire / if they notice it. I'd take a gamble, disconnect the comp and remove it from the truck then take it to the ste, ste, ste, dealer (there goes that darn studder again) just to make sure they get it corrected. Of course, they will want to install the "in-tank" LP to continue the warrantee coverage if they determine the LP is bad. You may wish to argue that you've never seen low LP pressure, but if it is something they "have" to do before they can swap out a VP then I'd let them install it so there is no excuse in the future to deny covering the VP under warranty. If they decide to go right after the VP (doubtfull) ask if you can have them install the hrvp-44 if you pay the difference for the part - they will probably insist that "in order to maintain warranty the part 'must' be DC approved". This is ste, ste, ste, (there it goes again - gotta have that checked out) dealer talk meaning, "no".

Good luck and do let us know the outcome if you take it to the ste, ste, you know who I mean.

 

[SMoules]

The reason why I ask is because I don't want to put the FASS on my pump if I know the VP44 is on its way out . It will kind of be pointless doing so because I will have to take the FASS back off when the VP goes out before taking the truck in to the dealership.



So back to my question for all the experienced people that have had VP44 problems, Has your truck thrown a 0216 code just once but you did not have to replace your VP44 afterwards? (I think I made this question more difficult than it is)



thanks

 

[OL RATLR]

The reason why I ask is because I don't want to put the FASS on my pump if I know the VP44 is on its way out . It will kind of be pointless doing so because I will have to take the FASS back off when the VP goes out before taking the truck in to the dealership.



So back to my question for all the experienced people that have had VP44 problems, Has your truck thrown a 0216 code just once but you did not have to replace your VP44 afterwards? (I think I made this question more difficult than it is)



thanks

I was told once it throwed the code that it was on it's way out. I drove mine

4 months before replacing it.

 

[Joe Mc]

for all the experienced people that have had VP44 problems

I guess I should wait to have specific mechanical problems before trying to help with dealer related experiences. No problem.

 

[SNiebaum]

I agree with Joe... take the comp off now and run the truck into a stealership to see what they say.



I drove my P0216 coded truck for 13 months(FASS assisted) until the VP-44 truly died but it was on life support for most of that time.

 

[SMoules]

Well with this information, I'm probably going to continue to drive my truck as is. Since I cleared the code I will wait until it comes up again (if it does within reasonable time). Then I will drive it down to the stealership, comp-less, and see if they will replace it. Either way it sounds like if I put a FASS on now I am just putting a bandaid over an open wound.



Experienced or not experienced, thanks for the info fellas.

 

[SilverSage]

I just had a FASS installed on a 12 valve and decided it was overkill on that motor. Diesel Power Products does not provide any support, at all, for their product. You cannot call or e-mail, they do not provide a method of contact. Instead, DieselPP sends you to the place where you purchased or had the product installed (some times I want to get facts from the horses mouth). This may not bother you but you might want to think twice before purchasing and see who else can provide a product and service! For the kind of money you will pay is service too much to ask for?

 

[Joe Mc]

Brian - Very well done. One of the reasons I went with the Glacier product was spealing with Rich was very reminiscent of speaking withe the folks @ DTT. Customer service means a great deal.

 

[CarneyJ]

i installed a FASS system on my 01 3500. after 2 lift pumps i decided to go with the fass. after about 100 miles it bleeds the air out and it runs awsome. other additions Edge juice w/attutide 4in no muff. cold air intake. ps my fuel pressure stays pegged at 18-22.

 

[steved]

Diesel Power Products does not provide any support, at all, for their product.

While this was true at one point, I think Diesel_Dan has did a very good job at customer service for FASS recently.





steved

 

[LowFly]

I just had a FASS installed on a 12 valve and decided it was overkill on that motor. Diesel Performance Products does not provide any support, at all, for their product. You cannot call or e-mail, they do not provide a method of contact. Instead, DieselPP sends you to the place where you purchased or had the product installed (some times I want to get facts from the horses mouth). This may not bother you but you might want to think twice before purchasing and see who else can provide a product and service! For the kind of money you will pay is service too much to ask for?

Might want to change it to Diesel Performance Products before you give thoes guys a bad ding... ... . Its lunch time... i need to find a carrot to eat :-laf ... . This horses mouth is only a post away.....

 

[SilverSage]

Might want to change it to Diesel Performance Products before you give thoes guys a bad ding... ... . Its lunch time... i need to find a carrot to eat :-laf ... . This horses mouth is only a post away.....

From the mouths of babes, err horses!!



I looked on the web and did not find any e-mails or phone numbers for DPP. I did find a number (by hook, crook & sleuthing) but it was the wrong one, the dude on the phone asked me if I wanted someone from FASS pumps and provided me with the correct number. I got a young lady at DPP who asked if I was a dealer to which I replied no but I wanted to ask some questions because I did not trust the dealer to provide correct answers. She told me to contact the dealer anyway because they have a special tech line to call.

OK then Diesel Dan lets hear it from the guys that made the pump.



I replaced the mechanical lift pump, got the truck running for a few minutes, it died, I bled the lines got it running for a few minutes again then it died. I had it towed to a shop who said the brand new pump was producing 0 pressure (turned out they were wrong about that, it was sucking air at the pre-heater/strainer) and suggested a FASS. I had read a few posts about the product although it did not seem ideal for the 12 valve I figured it might be a good way to go. I had read that many people were taking the mechanical pump, pre-heater & fuel/water separator off and going directly into the injection pump. So when the shop asked me if I wanted them to remove my Prime Lock I assumed (yes I know what ***-u-me means) they would only use the filter & fuel/water separator on the FASS. I also read on a FASS glossy advert that it has its own fuel heater.



Sooo I look at my truck and see that I now have 1 fuel filter & 2 fuel/water separators, 2 lift pumps (one supposedly defective) and 2 fuel heaters. Now I just can’t see the extra stuff as redundant backup, I see it as more places to leak and break. I thought for a $944. 00 upgrade I should be able get rid of “inferior Cummins parts”. Also if a function of the FASS is to remove air from the fuel then how can all the extra places to introduce air after the FASS be a good thing (don’t forget the check valve & return line between the injection pump and block, it can introduce air too)??



1. Is there a good, safe way to plump the FASS right to the injection pump?

2. Will it harm the injection pump or performance?

3. Is there a regulator that would help?

4. Does the FASS really have a fuel heater?

5. Is it safe/good to remove the pre-heater/strainer & lift pump, I can cut a plate to cover the hole.

6. If its bad to remove the mechanical lift pump can I eliminate the pre-heater strainer and go from FASS into the lift pump. (making a shim to keep the lift pump the correct distance away) If this is so what about the factory fuel/water separator?

Isn’t simple better??



I am looking for some knowledge and the best way to do this, not necessarily the easy way. What questions have I not asked? Besides answering my questions what else should I know?

You see, one reason I wanted to talk to the people who know the most about the FASS is that I might get some insight that would prompt a more accurate and correct question.

Did I just blow a grand or did I make a wise investment in the performance and longevity of my Ram????

 

[steved]

Also if a function of the FASS is to remove air from the fuel then how can all the extra places to introduce air after the FASS be a good thing (don’t forget the check valve & return line between the injection pump and block, it can introduce air too)??

I will only add this thought... how can you introduce air into the system if you have it under pressure?? Anything downstream of the FASS (or any pump for that matter) that could intro air into the system would be leaking since it was under pressure (forcing stuff out of the leak, not into the leak)...



steved

 

[steved]

6. If its bad to remove the mechanical lift pump can I eliminate the pre-heater strainer and go from FASS into the lift pump. (making a shim to keep the lift pump the correct distance away) If this is so what about the factory fuel/water separator?

Umm, what year truck do you have?



Nevermind, I see you posted a 12-valve earlier...



steved

 

[keimmmo]

I travel across two countries and like to keep things not only dependable, but simple and easy to get parts. If out on the road and you have trouble with your FASS, you will probably have trouble getting parts. I run a relocated factory lift pump with big lines and fittings. The lines and fittings are not likely to give trouble and I can buy a lift pump that will keep me going at any Auto Zone or NAPA store. Fuel pressures are reasonable. Food for thought.



Steve Keim

 

[SilverSage]

Even under pressure, flow at 95 GPH bernullie effect will suck air. a small hole especially nearly parrellel to the direction will act as a vetrurie to draw in gasses and liquids. So are you willing to answer my other questions. Also

 

[steved]

Even under pressure, flow at 95 GPH bernullie effect will suck air. a small hole especially nearly parrellel to the direction will act as a vetrurie to draw in gasses and liquids. So are you willing to answer my other questions. Also

I could see this IF you were flowing the fluid at an incredible volume (read: flow rate), but at a nearly static flow as we have, it would show as an external leak... a little common sense would tell you that.



Since you already know the answers to your questions, take these for what they are worth:



1. Is there a good, safe way to plump the FASS right to the injection pump?



I don't know since it is a 1st gen CTD... I'm only familiar with the 2nd and 3rd gens.



2. Will it harm the injection pump or performance?



A bird walking on the hood or something to do with the FASS??



3. Is there a regulator that would help?



The FASS has an internal regulator under the return line fitting to the tank... simply changing that spring will change the output pressure.



4. Does the FASS really have a fuel heater?



Yes, but it requires plumbing coolant to it...



5. Is it safe/good to remove the pre-heater/strainer & lift pump, I can cut a plate to cover the hole.



I don't know, because again, it's a 1st gen CTD.



6. If its bad to remove the mechanical lift pump can I eliminate the pre-heater strainer and go from FASS into the lift pump. (making a shim to keep the lift pump the correct distance away) If this is so what about the factory fuel/water separator?



I didn't understand why you wanted to replace your mechanical pump with the FASS in the first place...



Isn’t simple better??



Yes, so why are you changing from a mechanical pump to a FASS?



Since you obviously didn't like my responses in the first place, good luck with your truck.



steved

 

[blacksheepdiesel]

SilverSage,



I hate it that no one connected with FASS has apparently answered your questions. I am an AirDog man myself and since the FASS is a descendent of AirDog/Fuel Preperator I will answer your questions.



1. Yes, air can be introduced into the fuel after the FASS because of restrictions in the plumbing. This was talked about in detail in other Fuel Preparator/FASS threads. Run the output line from the FASS directly to the inlet on the P7100, if you need a fitting to make this happen PM me.

2. I am not sure the P7100 can be damaged like the somewhat fragile VP44 on my truck. At 20psi constant from my AirDog with over 130,000 miles now I speak with experience. And you just KNOW the big sled pullers are pumping massive volume/pressure thru the P7100!

3. Steved is correct, you can change the spring on the FASS to regulate output pressure. I would also install a new relief valve in the P7100.

4. Again, Steved is correct. However, my AirDog system has no pre-heater whatsoever and I have never had an issue with fuel gelling for 2 winters, spent partly in the northern border states.

5. Reference #1. Remove it all.

6. Reference #1. If your FASS has the water separator and fuel filter on it you need nothing else between it and the P7100.



Again, I hate it that the FASS people have apparently not come through for you. And yes, spending a chunk of money for something should mean you get great customer service. It's all about being a servant instead of trying to make a quick buck.



I sincerely hope that you get this system lined out. PM me if you need help. I don't come near knowing everything but I have a lot of friends and between us we will find the answers. If you get frustrated and get rid of the FASS I would be pleased to provide you with the name of an AirDog dealer who WILL provide customer service.



Godspeed,

Trent

 

[steved]

1. Yes, air can be introduced into the fuel after the FASS because of restrictions in the plumbing. This was talked about in detail in other Fuel Preparator/FASS threads.



Trent

Explain to me (in detail) how a (sealed) fuel system under pressure without air in it to begin with or air being injected into it can have air introduced from a restriction...



And I stand by my previous statement, we are not flowing enough volume to "vacuum" air into the system (like a venturi) while it is pressurized. And even if it happened at WOT (max fuel flow), you would have an external leak at idle.



In my peabrain, I see the restriction as nothing more than a restriction that may cause a pressure drop. But I do not see how that can introduce air into the fuel, if there is no air present in the fuel (or a pocket of air) to begin with. That is what the FASS and Airdog are supposed to do correct, remove entrained air?? So if they remove the entrained air, how can we "make" air at a restriction????



The only way I could see it was if the air is "dissolved" in the fuel much like carbonation in a bottle of soda... but with the churn and burn of the pump, then it is a moot point. There would be no way to remove all the entrained air so that the IP wouldn't stir it up as soon as it hit that pump...



And even if there was a pressure drop that added air to the fuel (from the soda theory), then as soon as it pressurized again (once past the restriction), the air would re-dissolve into the fuel.



I want to understand this, because it doesn't make sense to me. Or is it really as important (or even as "real") as we make it out to be??



steved