Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) FASS W ITP "custom" Pickup, No Start, HELP!

[Amish Elegance]

Bros. '02 with intank "fix. " Found out fuel will not pull past pump from TDR. Thanks Tim! Next problem... I think our home built pickup was not quite of sound design at 2:00 this morning. See pictures below.



I know it can be done, but I was just hoping someone had done it before me. My fear is that the stock check valve we left in is bypassing the feed when it sees suction instead of the pressure it once saw after the in tank pump.



Bump starter, 3-4 psi, max. Crack filter, prime fass, 22psi at VP. Bleed system at return of VP. Bump starter, 3-5 psi at VP inlet. NO START. Critique our hilljack pickup and offer advice please. He must drive this truck monday AM. Parts stores close soon! Any one been down this road?



I'm about to the point of using the "dammit tool. " HELP!



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[SKneeland]

this might help some http://www.glacierdieselpower.com/images/PDFs/IntankPumpExposed.pdf



but id suggest you remove the "H" fitting. its now become a suction line from the FASS, take out all the unneccesary "stuff"

 

[Amish Elegance]

THANKS MAN! That article was most helpful. He shoulda bought a GDP kit I guess.



We've since dropped the tank and extended the hose from the base of the bowel to the top of the filler assembly, no H. Tank back in... We're still experiencing problems. I think the bowl is running dry with out that "venturi" affect described in the article.



I think the "flapper valve" needs to come out at the bottom of the bowel. Guess the tank comes out... again!

 

[Amish Elegance]

Well... lets just say we'll be really good at removing the fuel tank when this is said and done. #@$%!



Current status: The blue line (same as FASS sends for suction from tank) was extended to go from the top of the module down to within roughly 1/4 inch of the bottom of the bowel at installed hight, no screen installed this time. Great care was taken at this step, as the sight of a fuel tank on my garage floor by this time is just getting old. The "flapper valve" referenced in the article above was removed and replaced by a 3/4 inch hole in the bottom of the pickup bowel. Truck started fine and maintained 22-23 psi at the VP at all times... with a few exceptions.



On his ride home after making a right hander the damn FASS lost prime, fuel press went down to 4 psi and kept falling. Bro killed it at 2psi , bumped starter and primed fass. 22 psi, Good to go. (This is all with 1/8 tank of fuel. ) Turned into his driveway and IT DID IT AGAIN! WTF does a guy gotta do to make this finicky little pump stay primed?! I'm almost to the point where I buy him the fuel tank module without the pump in there, old style. Just so I dont have to pull this pig of a tank again. #@$%! The idea of the fass was to make the vehicle more reliable.



Anybody got any ideas on how to make a foolproof pickup, or should I just get on the phone and order an old style tank module?



Got any pictures of an old style module without the pump?

 

[steved]

Sounds like at 1/8 tank, you were sucking air from lack of fuel, no fault of the FASS... as soon as you straightened out and it reprimed, that sorta eliminates the FASS as the culprit... probably that little bit of fuel slosh is causing you to "run out of fuel" since you don't have the cup?.



To date, I have not had a priming issue with my FASS... I'd say you will be dropping the tank yet again to ensure your hose isn't "floating" and to see if there is a way to get the FASS from sucking itself dry similar to the OEM module.



steved

 

[RPA]

I did somewhat the same thing as you guys are trying to do. Except I used a 1/2 metal pipe that extends down to about 1/4" from bottom of tank. I do not have a filter in the bottom and I did away with the collection bowl all together. I have found that I can't run the tank bellow 1/4 or suck air. When it sucks air I can't notice it by the way the truck runs but the fuel pressure gauge jumps around.



Don't know if this helps, but its what I have found in my truck.

 

[Amish Elegance]

Thanks for the replys...



I do still have the "cup," we just removed the one way inlet valve at the bottom of it. (on one of our tests the FASS would lose prime just setting still in the garage at idle. Pumped the cup dry faster than the valve could fill it. (We think. ) The hose is inside a sleeve that allows it to slide to the bottom of the cup, but not come out of the cup. I dont think its floating. Sadly there will be another photo op for our creation soon.



I'm not down on the fass. We did the bucket test and it worked fine. (a stationary test. ) I just wish it wasn't so hard to keep the sucka primed. More accurately stated, so hard to build a pickup that'll keep the sucka primed at lower fuel levels. When I say he primed it, bumping the key alone does not cut it. He's gotta get out, spin the filter loose with the pump running, then spin it back faster than he's managed to thus far to avoid a diesel dousing. :-laf



RPA, Thanks fer the idea, but we run the tanks till we're on E round here. Sometimes the pace of life/work just requires it. The idea is to have it perform just like an OE system down to "E" but with the benefits of the FASS's steady 20psi. We've just gotta hilljack engineer it so it works like that, or buy the old style tank module. Right now the latter is looking like the easy way out.



Those without ITP conversions, have you ever had problems with prime sucking through the OE tank module?

Anyone with pictures of the old style tank module?

Keep the ideas comin'! Design improvements?



The up-side to all this is we're going to be able to have the tank out in under 15 mins when this is said and done. Those "quick lock" OE hose clamps shoulda been named "jesus clamps. " :-laf

 

[steved]

I'm running the 2004's OEM pickup... with a 95/150 FASS... it cavitates once in a while depending on the fuel I feed it (some fuels cavitate more than others??), but never loses prime. I have ran it down below an 1/8th tank only once, and it never gave any trouble...



I think what your problem is goes back to the OEM pump not having a return like the FASS... the pickup wasn't designed to have a little over 1. 5 gallon/minute run through like the FASS does (it is always flowing that much fuel)... that coupled with an air leak somewhere?



You can get replacement fuel fittings at some part houses... I found a replacement for the connector on top of the tank (because I was told this is a problem area for air leaks to occur) at a local place just to have for a spare.



steved

 

[LowFly]

I have heard rumors that dealers have these stock modules piled up and will give them away when talking to the right person. BUT you didnt hear this from me... ..... :-laf



Brad seems to have good luck with his Suction tube kit in his truck. I have seen him dran the thing and keep pressure to the FASS. BUT in all honesty, i wouldn't run the truck down much further when the fuel light comes on anyway. That is just me... ... BUT i do see your point... .



FYI:



STK-1001 -- 2003-2006 Dodge

STK-1002 -- 1994-2002 Dodge

 

[Jeff Knight]

I just bought one off of E-bay. $75 +15 to ship. Very good shape. Jeff

 

[lsenus]

Several companies such as ATL or Fuel Safe make in tank billet pickups that are used in racing fuel cells. These sit on the bottom of the tank, typically in the corner in racing applications, but can be left to settle anywhere in the tank. They are generally wieghted, conntected to the tank outlets with -8 or -10 hose in the tank to the external connectors.