Fast Idle 04.5 6-spd

[HParfitt]

Hi,



It's hard to think about winter warm up when the temps are soaring but it might take a while to get this resolved. I have a 2004. 5 6spd. I have been researching what is needed to get the cruise control fast idle feature up and running.



There is mention of a clutch switch from Cummins/Mopar. Cummins part number 408985100. It seems that there is already a clutch switch since the started won't engage without the clutch being pushed in. Also if you push the clutch in with the cruise set, it cancels. Maybe the swith already on the clutch is NO and this one is NC or vica versa? Maybe it's a different connection pin to the ecm? Is the clutch switch needed? If so is there any good place to get Cummins parts on-line. I read the Cummins part is much cheaper than the Mopar part.



Once this is installed will dealers enable it? I recently read that Mopar is not allowing the cruise control set fast idle to be enabled on manual transmissions due to liability issues? Some one mentioned that there is a workaround. The workaround being to use the pto fast idle. Is this an option? Is the pto fast idle set by the cruise controls or is it a switch or something that takes the idle to a fixed point X rpm above normal idle? Does this require dealer connection to the Star tool to be enabled or is it just some kind of hard wired connection? IE install a jumper hook up a wire ect? Does this route require the clutch switch?



Also there is mention that, I think it's the Edge Box, has a fast idle enable. If this is true does this use the cruise control buttons or is it just a preset X rpm above normal? Does the box need to be hooked up to the OBD port for it to function? Does this route require the clutch switch?



Got the bomb bug recently. Must be the heat. Thanks for your help.

 

[steved]

Mine does it automatically... nothing to set... it sits for more than a few minutes and it idles up...



It is temperature driven... the colder it is, the quicker it hits fast idle... even after being driven at operating temps... mine will bump up just taking on fuel.



Mine was set this way at the factory...



steved

 

[starkmr]

Same thing as steved with mine, it is automatic and temp driven.

 

[TPoulsen]

HParfitt,



The manual high idle has been enabled on my truck but it does nothing without nessecery switch or whatever being installed. There is many threads about this if you do a search for HIGH IDLE. I have been meaning to look into this deeper but haven't had the time yet so I would be interested to see what you find.



Yes, it is hard for me to understand how the truck can idle up on it's own when ambient temps drop but not allow us to raise rpm's manually. Wires, voltage, switches never have computed well in my brain but common sense says that the truck is capable of performing this action on it's own so we should be able to perform this action manually because all nessecery equipment is allready their.



Must be my simple mind,

Tyler

 

[steved]

I had another thought too... I thought I remembered reading that the manual (6spd) trucks were not able to be programmed with the manual fast idle... I thought that was only reserved for the auto equipped trucks with cruise??? Us manual owners were stuck with the auto idle up feature...



I think the switch/manual method he is referring to, is the grounding of the on pin on the ECM to engage fast idle (it is noramally used in trucks equipped with a PTO)?? I also remember reading a thread on here about making a manual switch that could enable you to trigger a fast idle anytime you wanted by simply flipping a switch??



steved

 

[HParfitt]

Not Automatic Fast idle

First let me say that I am not talking about the auto idle increase when outdoor temps are around 30 degrees and head temps are low. Mine does that as well. I am specifically talking about the idle increase via the cruise control buttons.



Tpoulsen, I have spent a decent amount of time researching this for my specific application. It was a big issue about 1. 5 years. Even back then it seemed some dealers would do it others refused. There was a tsb for poor cab heat that was issued for autos only I'm told. There is a lot of conflicting info on this. Nothing is conclusive for a 2004. 5 6spd. Unfortunately I don't have an in with a Dodge dealer was just wondering if anybody did this on a 2004. 5 6spd Also wondering if anybody did the pto route or programmer route.

 

[RDyson]

Mine is an early 03 auto and is pre "high idle". I bought a manual throttle cable and made my own. The pics are in my readers rigs.

Randy

 

[Hercules130]

I bought the manual high idle kit from Lou Fusz Dodge and got the tdr discount. It was about $250. I didn't want to take a chance voiding the warranty so i opted for the cummins switch. The switch itself is just a simple proximity switch, and it is engaged when the clutch is released and disengaged when the clutch is in. The guy that does my work is a cummins tech so he was able to bring the DRB home and switch it on.

 

[HParfitt]

Ok guy's here's what I have researched from this board and about 3 others.

I'm an obsessive compulsive and am going to get this thing working.



I'm not attesting to the accuracy, this is what info I was able to come up with.



Basically Cruise Controled Fast idle to cure customer complaints of slow cab warm up as addressed in TSB TSB 18-004-04 accomplishes exactly the same thing in the same way as enabling pto idle up. Probably some creative engineer came up with a resoulution for the customer complaints that utilized existing functionality. A workaround so to speak. My guess is since there are realatively few people with manuals complaining and since the retrofit to enable this on manual trucks would require DC to install a switch, they don't cover it in the tsb. Manual trucks would cost DC real dollars. Cost of the switch and labor to install it versus just hooking up the computer.



Apparently there are a number of different ecm configurations in 3rd generation trucks.



ECM1 - 03 and 04 trucks

Not sure if there are different ones for the SO v HO motors there is just mention that this ecm is unique to these model years. Almost forgot there used to be 2 different motor ratings.



ECM2 - 04. 5 trucks the 325/600 Motor

ECM3 - 05 trucks 325/610 Motor

ECM4 - 06 trucks - can bus



The info I came up with is that ECM1 (This is my terminology to ID different ecms) does not have the software installed from the factory for fast idle. In order to get this working your ecm needs to be flashed (new software installed) then the fast idle needs to be enabled (turned on). A 3 step process.



ECM2 thru ECM4 has the software already installed. The only thing is that it needs to be enabled. Some of the guys with MY2006 trucks say they already had it enabled at the time of purchase. These all seem to by 48re trucks. Maybe from the factory maybe smart dealers that did this before delivery to eliminate a future customer complaint?



This feature is available for both auto and manual transmission trucks. It is the same feature as the pto idle and idle speed is controlled via cruise control functionality.



The manual transmission trucks require a clutch switch or a wire with a switch that goes to pin 22 on the ecm. This pin needs to go to ground, currently there is no connection to this pin. I wonder if this pin is used on auto transmission trucks? Maybe it's tied into the neutral switch?



The current, factory installed, clutch switch on manual transmissions is wired into the starter circuit not the ecm. That is why the clutch must be in to start the truck. The reason the cruise disengages when the clutch is depressed is that the cruise senses an increase in rpm's with no increase in road speed. It reads this a possible tire slipage and as a failsafe disengages.



The clutch switch that goes to pin 22, Cummins part number 408985100, is a second clutch switch. It's a proximity switch that is tripped when the clutch pedal is full out. Apparently $80 from Cummins $200 from Mopar. Anybody know how to buy this from Cummins online?



Also it looks like the new Smarty can enable this in ECM2 thru ECM4 trucks. Not sure about ECM1 trucks. Maybe if an ECM1 truck was back for a newer flash sometime in it's life? Or maybe the ECM1 truck would need to go back for the flash and then have Smary enable it.



Sounds like trying to get this feature with a programmer (other than Smarty), for example a Bully Dog, is different. From what I read using a programmer (other than Smarty) requires the programmer to be plugged into the obdII port and the idle up is a menu selection on the programmer. It's not controlled by the Cruise Control buttons. If anybody knows I'm wrong on this let me know.



If I get a box it will be a Smarty, that's just my personal preferance. Just wasn't ready for a box yet.



1) My strategy is to get the Cummins switch kit.

2) Then make an appointment at a dealer to have it enabled. Anybody know a good dealer within 100 miles of Allentown PA familiar with this? Might just ask for the PTO idle up to be enabled?

3) If #2 fails I'll get a Smarty.

 

[steved]

I guess us guys without cruise (yep, my truck is one of the few that didn't get cruise for some reason?) are SOL.



As for a dealer... I don't know if the auto idle up is the same as the manual idle up using the cruise... mine has always done it, however, it was also in for NUMEROUS computer reflashings prior to it ever getting cold... one of which may have enabled the auto idle up feature.



I have used Savage and Outen County for work, but I'm not sure I would ever leave them touch my truck again...



steved

 

[6speed]

I have an 04 3500 SRW 6sp and this past winter I was in Bristol Tn and the outside temp was about 20 degrees and mine idled up to about 1200. Does this indicate that I can set the idle up with the cruise. Cause I don't think (thought I smelled something burnin) I have ever tried it. But think I will. Sure would help the A/C cool a little better in the summer when sittin still