Faster Fill-ups...Shorten the Breather Hose?

[DF5152]

Originally posted by Blakers

If someone here could pull their tank down to look at and get a cross section of how the fill line enters the tank and how far it pretrudes below the actual top of the tank.





If the tube were designed right - and the tank design permitted it to be done so - the tube may simply be able to be inserted into the fill line to a point and anchored by wire or some other means.



Blake

thats just if it were designed right rite from the start we wouldnt have this problem

 

[scotty1]

I'll have a look but...

Several of the medium duty International rigs have a plastic tank like the Rams. They never worry about shavings in the tanks when drilling and installing a bulk head for reefer units or other applications where they tap the main tank for fuel.

This really surprised me but its common... all the trucks they have were done this way. Still makes me nervous though.

The claim is that the shavings settle at the bottom and theres a pick up screen anyway. Really surprised me but I checked with Freightliner and they did it the same... take a 2 or 3 inch hole saw and cut... thread in the bulk head with the fittings and done.



Who wants to go first?

 

[DF5152]

on the top of my shortbed tank there is a plastic hose barb that goes no where. does anyone have any ideas what its for? if i could make it functional and tie it into the vent tube it may help since it is at a higher postion in the tank than the vent tube? any dodge techs have the answer?

 

[Spooled-up]

Another observation...

I'm getting more Pi$$#d off at this slow fillup thing all the time.



Pulled into a rest area on the PA turnpike and all diesel pumps but one are out of order. Halfway through fillup a crane pulls up behind me of course. Felt like forever to get her filled.



Next fuel stop in MA It was pouring rain. I loved standing out in the wet to top off. I really like the extra range, but it's becoming a pain to keep accurate records on mileage. I can get an extra five gallons in if I'm patient.



Here's the observation...



When I'm slowly putting the fuel in, and the level of fuel is above the vent just below the fill neck, meaning the vent is submerged in fuel, there are no bubbles coming out of the vent. Shouldn't the air in the tank being displaced by fuel be coming out of that vent? I thought it would be bubbling for sure.

 

[dPierce]

Still need a solution!

I am still as frustrated as many of you are regarding this problem. I've stopped keeping accurate mileage records, because it just takes too much time to top the tank off, not to mention the shortened interval between fill-ups.



I also noticed the hose "barb" or some type of elbow sitting at the high-end of the tank, but it's not connected to anything.



Seems like the solution has to be inserting a breather hose at the highest point in the tank. I just never seem to have the time to tackle this project... . yet.



Pierce

 

[yogibear]

My trk. was an early one, del. in mid Oct. , I took del. the last week of Oct. When the auto nozzel shuts off, I cannot get 1 more gal. in, and believe me I've tried, especially when the fuel is cheap. Don't know what the diff. is, wish I could help.



Larry

 

[CATCRACKER]

after reading this posts i put an extra 3-4 gallons in after the nozzle clicked off the 1st time. it took me 15 min

 

[LightmanE300]

I wish it were as easy as TDI's. TDI's have a small vent button that prevents filling to the brim, which is there for the gasoline models and carries over to diesels. Once the button is totally removed, you can fill all the way up to the filler neck. I wonder if the vent breather tube on the Cummins is able to be totally cut out or removed? Has anyone tried modifying it yet or is everyone just whining about it?

 

[KTaylor]

Vent Tube

Originally posted by LightmanE300

I wish it were as easy as TDI's. TDI's have a small vent button that prevents filling to the brim, which is there for the gasoline models and carries over to diesels. Once the button is totally removed, you can fill all the way up to the filler neck. I wonder if the vent breather tube on the Cummins is able to be totally cut out or removed? Has anyone tried modifying it yet or is everyone just whining about it?

Regarding Vent Tube:

Removed Tank, Reached Through Suction Manhole And Removed Vent Tube Even With Top Of Tank With Knife, It Only Protruded Into Tank 2 Inches. Shortened Fill Time Some.

The Tank Will Hold 40 Gallons When Totally Empty, It Is Designed To Have 5 Gallons Airspace. Only Way To Eliminate Airspace Would Be To Install Vent Tube In Top Rear Of Tank, Tank Is ABS Plastic So A Repair Kit For A RV Holding Tank Could Be Used To Cement A 1/2 Inch Hose Barb In Place.

The Hose Barb That Is Already On The Tank I Believe Is A Vacuum Breaker To Keep Tank From Collapsing. I Could Blow Through It But Couldn't Suck Through It. It Is Connected To Something In Top Of Tank.



Ktaylor

 

[LightmanE300]

I wish I had a better understanding of how the tdi tank worked. It had a button to allow that airspace but once you removed the button, it vented out all the air. The button was about 2-3" from the fuel cap, easily accessible from the open filler neck. The button was removed, and then the tank was able to vent on it's own. I just dont understand what keeps fuel from spilling out, which it didn't... We certainly dont need the airspace, I'm guessing it's there on the gassers and we are the unlucky recipients of the production line similarities.

 

[JimBeck]

On my tdi you push that buttom with the nozzle to vent.

 

[Blakers]

Originally posted by JimBeck

On my tdi you push that buttom with the nozzle to vent.

What's a tdi and what button? Explain.

 

[Rosco]

Originally posted by Blakers

What's a tdi and what button? Explain.

A TDI is a Volkswagon diesel. Beyond that I have no clue.

 

[frijole]

Fueling

The REAL problem is the location of the vent on the tank. With our trucks sitting high in the rear end, and the vent on the front of the tank, you haven't a prayer in heck of getting the last 5 gallons unless you "trickle" it in at the pump. The answer is to move the vent to the rear of the tank, where it is the highest point. BUT, When loaded, like with a 5th wheel, everything changes. You need to "T" in a rear vent, (with a rise to the main vent), so that you can fill unloaded or loaded, and still fill fast and full. Needs to be a TSB on this. I for one, am going to go with a Aerotank, or a TransferFlow to eliminate the problem. My '01 truck I put a Aerotank on, (60 gal), and could fill it to the neck without any "shutoffs" as fast as the pump could pump it. Venting IS the problem. Ron

 

[R.M.THOMPSON]

Please help me on this one,I'm getting confused with different interpretations of this problem. If we look at this in a math sense,we should all have the same data to grind on and we don't!

And yes this problem affects me also,but I'll leave my emotion for when we come up with a solution. Are these sound questions ?

1) total fuel left in tank when filled(when we usually stop) =

2) total fuel added (then rounded up to next 25 cents maybe)=

3) total space(in equivalent gallons) left in tank =

4) total safe fill level allowing for expansion (usually in %) =

5) total fuel left at Low level suction loss

Example on my personal observations and assumptions for our 34 gallon tank (advertised)

1)=4 (maybe,I stop around "E")

2)=28 (usually,with only rounding up to next quarter)

3)= ? (this is were the part of the problem lacks data and do we even care what it is ?) 4)= 5 (15% of 34 = 5. 1) 15% for d. o. t. regs on most stuff...

5)=1 ( just guessing from a post I read,but still gets us close to the end) 34 advertised ,38 highest reported fill ,and me,31 usable gallons when I leave the station. In closing,what should we accept as a figure 31(me) 34(advertised) 38(to the gills) ??? Mark,who's done squeazing the last two or three gallons into my tank.

 

[gsbrockman]

R. M. THOMPSON :



All of your stats are probably true, but it's still a PITA, especially if you've owned two Dodge CTD's since December 1997 and never had a fill problem until the '03. Since it's nasty this winter and I can't keep my truck clean anyway, I crank down on the pump and let the foam roll out the top and down the bedside. That's my temporary solution for the moment.

Greg

 

[Dean Upson]

When I am traveling is the only time that it really makes a difference how much fuel I can squeeze into the tank. 4 or 5 extra gallons in the tank is major when you are only getting 10-12 mpg towing a heavy trailer in some areas.



Dean

 

[ralphr]

Fuel Fill up problems

I do not know about the first gen trucks, but I had similar problem on my 99! You have hit the problem square on the top, the problem is the location of the vent. I also agree that to do it right the vent needs to be "Tee'd" with an extra vent place high in the back. Now anyone done this? what problems were encountered, and what parts were used? this would be real good info.

 

[R.M.THOMPSON]

Just my opinion , when we get this figured out , it should be called the 34 to 38 gallon conversion. I'm under the assumption that there is approx. 3 gal in reserve when gauge read "E". Where did we read this figure ?

 

[BobD]

Learned this on a trip to Alaska.

After auto shutoff, hold pump handle at a downward angle when filling the tank and the bubbles go away and you can fill to the TOP