Right on, right on. Obama is going to tax us to death and kill the economy. You think it's bad now, if he gets elected, I predict an even worse drop in the markets after the election. Amazingly, he is still against any drilling too! Where is his magic alternative energy that's ready for mass production and ready for the masses right now?!#@$%! What a fool!#@$%!#@$%!
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FED UP with fuel prices?
- Thread starter Crazy Horse
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TAbbott
My apologies. What I was referring to was a report a while back that one or two states were talking about giving their electoral votes to the candidate who had the NATIONAL majority, not the state majority. So, even if your state went 99% for a certain candidate, if the national majority was for the other candidate, the national majority leader would get your electoral votes. This would defeat the reason for the electoral college. A few big states (Ca, NY, etc) could have huge landslide votes for one candidate, and most of the rest of the country vote for the other. But, because of huge population centers, the candidate that wins the huge population centers would win (although he might only win a few states if any)
In the last election, here in Washington, the rep won 31 out of 39 counties (Im not exact on the count, but pretty close). But, because of the huge poplulation center in liberal Seattle, (along with vote manufacturing), we have a liberal dem governor by about 121 votes.
My apologies. What I was referring to was a report a while back that one or two states were talking about giving their electoral votes to the candidate who had the NATIONAL majority, not the state majority. So, even if your state went 99% for a certain candidate, if the national majority was for the other candidate, the national majority leader would get your electoral votes. This would defeat the reason for the electoral college. A few big states (Ca, NY, etc) could have huge landslide votes for one candidate, and most of the rest of the country vote for the other. But, because of huge population centers, the candidate that wins the huge population centers would win (although he might only win a few states if any)
In the last election, here in Washington, the rep won 31 out of 39 counties (Im not exact on the count, but pretty close). But, because of the huge poplulation center in liberal Seattle, (along with vote manufacturing), we have a liberal dem governor by about 121 votes.
I remember when that happened and was discussed in the news. I felt sorry for Washington state then and still do. If I remember right it was reported that as usual the democrap party stuffed the voting boxes in certain Seattle precincts. The Republican candidate, who actually won the election, refused to challenge the illegal voting and went away quietly.
We can be absolutely certain that the scumbag democraps have their plans in place to do this again on a massive scale this November.
I don't think states can simply decide to change their voting methods to overturn the electoral college system. I'm no Constitutional scholar but I think that would require a Constitutional amendment. Of course, with liberal socialist governors, legislatures, nobama in the White House, and the current scumbags running the US House and Senate anything is possible. The Constitution wouldn't prevent them from doing whatever they decide to do. They view the US Constitution, which they have sworn to obey and protect, as a mere minor impediment to their plans.
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I THINK that the states CAN decide how to allocate their electoral votes (or at least thats what the report said). I dont know how it is stated in the Constitution, but the implecation was that the states can do what they want. Part of the compromise when the Constitution was drafted. But, its always been done by majority winner in the state gets the votes. (except for the rouge elector who every once in a while goes againts tradition)
TFucili
TDR MEMBER
Redistricting can be done, and, like almost anything, it can be misused.
See: Gerrymandering - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
See: Gerrymandering - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Tractorat: No need to apologise to me.
What you and Harvey have described as happening in the WA Gubernatorial race, pathetic as it was, had nothing to do with Electoral College votes. In an electoral college system, the conservative may have actually been elected, even with a 115 vote minority.
What you described is a large urban area (predominately liberal) using their simple majority of individual voters to cancel out and over-ride the voters in the more rural parts of the state -- one man, one vote, theoretically -- as opposed to votes being cast by district with delegates apportioned thereby.
The Electoral College is different. It's a system where each state casts votes based on it's total number of representatives (Senators and Congressmen). Its a check against exactly what happened in the state of Washington. The check occurs because each state, no matter how pupulous, has only 2 Senators. If it were not for this system, the only place the candidates would bother campaigning is in the high population states. The rural states would have no say at all in who was going to be President. You could win just a few largely urban highly populated states and have more than enough votes to win without worrying about the rest of the country.
Also, it turns out that you were right about allocation of delegates in at least two states: Maine and Nebraska. Here's some info I got from Google:
"A vote for the candidates for President and Vice-President named on the ballot is a vote for the electors... " This is the case for 48 states -- it's known as the "winner-take-all system. " The other system, known as the "district system," is observed in both Maine and Nebraska. In these states, two electors' votes are made based on the candidate who received the most votes statewide. The remaining electoral votes go by congressional districts, awarding the vote to the candidate who received the most votes in each district. "
I would think that this system of diluting those states votes essentially weakens their influence on the process, effectively disenfranchising citizens of those states, making their individual votes worth less than those of citizens in the other, winner-take-all states.
And then there's this:
"Faithless Electors"
It turns out there is no federal law that requires an elector to vote according to their pledge (to their respective party). And so, more than a few electors have cast their votes without following the popular vote or their party. These electors are called "faithless electors. "
In response to these faithless electors' actions, several states have created laws to enforce an elector's pledge to his or her party vote or the popular vote. Some states even go the extra step to assess a misdemeanor charge and a fine to such actions. For example, the state of North Carolina charges a fine of $10,000 to faithless electors.
It's important to note, that although these states have created these laws, a large number of scholars believe that such state-level laws hold no true bearing and would not survive constitutional challenge. "
What would happen if, in an extremely close election, one of these "Faithless Electors" votes actually determined the outcome of a national election is anybody's guess. Fortunately, it's never happened.
I would suspect there would be riots in the streets, especially if it happened that the liberal was the loser.
What you and Harvey have described as happening in the WA Gubernatorial race, pathetic as it was, had nothing to do with Electoral College votes. In an electoral college system, the conservative may have actually been elected, even with a 115 vote minority.
What you described is a large urban area (predominately liberal) using their simple majority of individual voters to cancel out and over-ride the voters in the more rural parts of the state -- one man, one vote, theoretically -- as opposed to votes being cast by district with delegates apportioned thereby.
The Electoral College is different. It's a system where each state casts votes based on it's total number of representatives (Senators and Congressmen). Its a check against exactly what happened in the state of Washington. The check occurs because each state, no matter how pupulous, has only 2 Senators. If it were not for this system, the only place the candidates would bother campaigning is in the high population states. The rural states would have no say at all in who was going to be President. You could win just a few largely urban highly populated states and have more than enough votes to win without worrying about the rest of the country.
Also, it turns out that you were right about allocation of delegates in at least two states: Maine and Nebraska. Here's some info I got from Google:
"A vote for the candidates for President and Vice-President named on the ballot is a vote for the electors... " This is the case for 48 states -- it's known as the "winner-take-all system. " The other system, known as the "district system," is observed in both Maine and Nebraska. In these states, two electors' votes are made based on the candidate who received the most votes statewide. The remaining electoral votes go by congressional districts, awarding the vote to the candidate who received the most votes in each district. "
I would think that this system of diluting those states votes essentially weakens their influence on the process, effectively disenfranchising citizens of those states, making their individual votes worth less than those of citizens in the other, winner-take-all states.
And then there's this:
"Faithless Electors"
It turns out there is no federal law that requires an elector to vote according to their pledge (to their respective party). And so, more than a few electors have cast their votes without following the popular vote or their party. These electors are called "faithless electors. "
In response to these faithless electors' actions, several states have created laws to enforce an elector's pledge to his or her party vote or the popular vote. Some states even go the extra step to assess a misdemeanor charge and a fine to such actions. For example, the state of North Carolina charges a fine of $10,000 to faithless electors.
It's important to note, that although these states have created these laws, a large number of scholars believe that such state-level laws hold no true bearing and would not survive constitutional challenge. "
What would happen if, in an extremely close election, one of these "Faithless Electors" votes actually determined the outcome of a national election is anybody's guess. Fortunately, it's never happened.
I would suspect there would be riots in the streets, especially if it happened that the liberal was the loser.
You're right about Nebraska at least, I know that much. Mr. B Hussein Obama is sending minions to campaign hard in the Omaha metro area. It is big enough by itself to be one of our districts for the house of representatives. Omaha and Lincoln(where I live) are becoming more and more liberal by the day. We are safe in Lincoln because the 2nd district is the whole eastern 1/3 of the state so some rurals can help us overcome the libs in Lincoln proper, but Omaha is a different story. It's population is big enough, and quite liberal, I'm curious to see what will happen. It does raise quite the question though doesn't it? Why is B. Hussein Obama going to spend tens of thousands of dollars in Omaha to try and take ONE electoral vote out of a state that has voted republican for the last 40 years? Sounds like Obama is desperate and knows i'ts going to be a very close race.
Those of you that want to pay less at the pump, quit making so many pointless trips here and there. Carpool, consolidate trips, buy a bike or a motorcycle, or maybe just maybe..... take a WALK! Stop wasting fuel on spur of the moment crap like "Hey, lets go rent a movie" or "Let's just eat out tonight". If you do that... . fine, but do all that and everything else you can to save on trips. Crying to the feds about fuel prices is NOT GOING TO ACCOMPLISH ANYTHING!!! I have had to take a very serious look at my driving habbits and so far I am far happier with my own results than anything that could realilistically happen at the pump. Stepping down off of soap box now. Thank you.
Conservation is fine for short-term relief but our economy is based on consumption. People buying things, going out to eat, outdoor motor vehicle recreation, etc. Conservation IS NOT a long-term solution. The more we conserve and quit buying things or doing things, the worse our economy gets.
Drilling is one good idea out of many to help us out, but my biggest beef is that our elected representatives ARE DOING NOTHING in congress!#@$%! I'm not crying to the feds, I'm disappointed with the lack of action and lack of leadership in all 3 branches!#@$%!
Drilling is one good idea out of many to help us out, but my biggest beef is that our elected representatives ARE DOING NOTHING in congress!#@$%! I'm not crying to the feds, I'm disappointed with the lack of action and lack of leadership in all 3 branches!#@$%!
ABSOLUTELY!
Some here are still clinging to, and/or promoting, the fantasy notion that the current fuel/crude pricing is a purely natural and necessary event...
BS!
It is contrived, artificial, and manipulated on a wide variety of fronts, from wacko environmentalists, to out of control carpetbagger profiteers - most of which are completely indifferent to any harmful fallout this creates upon our industrial or societal infrastructure.
Indeed, many of them have had a long agenda of envious attacks upon our USA way of life, freedoms and liberties - and freedom from Draconian controls common in other countries.
Nothing suits them better than seeing our society (like THEIRS, or their goal!) herded into tight little easily supervised and controlled communities, and travel limited by whatever means necessary. Walking, bikes and micro-vehicles are all a part of the plan - as well as the inability to act on whims, such as a unexpected trip to dine out, go to a movie - or ANYWHERE that might not be of a necessary or emergency nature.
I, for one, RESIST that sort of cattle-like control, whether it's done by abusive legislation or manipulated fuel costs that have the same effect - we're being HAD, and I will resist that manipulation by EVERY means at my disposal - as would MOST older generation members here, who have lived thru and experienced the far greater freedoms from the 50's and beyond, and are made increasingly SICK at what is foisted upon us in the name of "good of our society", "free enterprise", and "Environmentalism"... #@$%!
I somehow doubt that the many who bled and died, or at least served, in places like Europe, Asia, and others - did so with the vision that their sacrifices were all geared to the eventual reality that OUR nation should meekly submit to slowly morph into the very same society as those we were fighting against...
I agree on all accounts! Except for one. :-laf I do think that these high prices are neccessary in the short-term because that gives oil companies money and motivation to look for more oil, extract, refine, and bring it to market. It also appears that enough people are finally fed up with it and calling their representatives and telling them to open up drilling, and congress is finally taking notice, so it's not all bad. People say we're running out of oil, but I don't buy it. We just need to go find more. A lot of places we know where it's at, but are not allowed to get to it and that is my biggest beef! They've known about ANWR for 30 years, they known about rocky mountain shale oil for 80 years, they've known about the Bakken in N. D. since the 50's, they've known about all our off-shore deposits for years! Look at Brazil! Deep water drilling technology has advanced far enough to find two huge oil fields that will quadruple Brazils reserves! Let the oil companies go look for it!!#@$%! If the @%$!#$ in the middle east would just pump out more oil, there wouldn't be a problem. No one in the middle east/OPEC has done anything to increase production or expand their infrastructure in 30 years! They won't either because they like high prices! It lines their pockets that much more! #@$%!#@$%!
TFucili
TDR MEMBER
TAbbott,
You and I are on the same page. I was just using the Washington election of an example of why there really needs to be an electoral college system where the state vote winner gets all of the electoral votes.
In the washington governors race, we don't have an electoral college. And the result is that just a couple of huge population centers dictate the outcome of the state wide election. It is a real bone of contention in eastern Washington. It is said that Seattle controls who wins and who doesn't. And if Seattle doesn't get the votes it needs to control and election, they find them in boxes stuffed away somewhere for "emergencies"
TRat
You and I are on the same page. I was just using the Washington election of an example of why there really needs to be an electoral college system where the state vote winner gets all of the electoral votes.
In the washington governors race, we don't have an electoral college. And the result is that just a couple of huge population centers dictate the outcome of the state wide election. It is a real bone of contention in eastern Washington. It is said that Seattle controls who wins and who doesn't. And if Seattle doesn't get the votes it needs to control and election, they find them in boxes stuffed away somewhere for "emergencies"
TRat
JJuday, Thank you for the first non-political post concerning fuel prices in the last 8 pages or so. I agree with your opinion that conservation can help each of us individually save on our fuel costs. People's adapting to higher fuel costs have forced auto manufactures to cut back on pick up and SUV production and increased the production of fuel-efficient models. What I hear on the local news and read in the papers is that fuel efficient atomobiles are going for a lot more on ebay and at dealerships these days.
The high cost of fuel is putting a little squeeze on me just like everyone else. One of the good things to come out of it is the increased talk of alternative sources of getting form points a to b. Maybe a better electric car or improved bio whatever will come of this and we will be better off in the future because of it.
The high cost of fuel is putting a little squeeze on me just like everyone else. One of the good things to come out of it is the increased talk of alternative sources of getting form points a to b. Maybe a better electric car or improved bio whatever will come of this and we will be better off in the future because of it.
JesseJ,
You are right and stick to your beliefs. Pay no attention to senile old men who are still drinking the labor union koolaid and spouting big ideas about how someone else should develop alternative energy.
Yeah, it would be great, I guess, if some genius would invent a way I can burn air or water or used toilet tissue in my Ram and obtain equivalent power and economy. But I'm not going to count on it anytime soon.
We ARE not running out of oil and scientists have recently reported that, in fact, there is ample and convincing evidence that crude oil deep in the earth did not result from dead dinosaurs and leaves as previously thought but is being produced and reproduced by an unknown process in nature deep in the bowels of our earth.
... and they think diesels are stinky now!:-laf:-laf:-laf
TFucili
TDR MEMBER
That's pretty funny right there!:-laf
Well, I am convinced that we are still the best country in the world and when a problem arises, great Americans rise up w/ new solutions and innovative ideas to the problems. Some would say America is at it's worst, I say America is at it's best. There are tens of thousands of people working on several different ideas to solve our energy problems. T. Boone Pickens wants to use wind and solar for electricity so we can quit using natural gas and turn it into diesel, a company in my home state of Nebraska has developed a bio-degradeable plastic out of CORN of all things instead of petroleum, They are beginning to develop and use algae farms that not only capture carbon dioxide, but can be turned into diesel or ethanol, I believe we're on the verge of some great battery technology w/ all the development that's been going on lately, there's a guy trying to make better and improve on a car that runs on compressed air!
Whether you believe in global warming or not, whether you think the world is running out of oil or not, these are all great ideas to use less foreign energy sources and to showcase the amazing ability of our fellow Americans! We are still the best and the brightest the world has to offer!
Well, I am convinced that we are still the best country in the world and when a problem arises, great Americans rise up w/ new solutions and innovative ideas to the problems. Some would say America is at it's worst, I say America is at it's best. There are tens of thousands of people working on several different ideas to solve our energy problems. T. Boone Pickens wants to use wind and solar for electricity so we can quit using natural gas and turn it into diesel, a company in my home state of Nebraska has developed a bio-degradeable plastic out of CORN of all things instead of petroleum, They are beginning to develop and use algae farms that not only capture carbon dioxide, but can be turned into diesel or ethanol, I believe we're on the verge of some great battery technology w/ all the development that's been going on lately, there's a guy trying to make better and improve on a car that runs on compressed air!
Whether you believe in global warming or not, whether you think the world is running out of oil or not, these are all great ideas to use less foreign energy sources and to showcase the amazing ability of our fellow Americans! We are still the best and the brightest the world has to offer!
I can remember watching the Jetsons back in the 60's. I really thought we would have flying cars by now:-laf.
Well we haven't heard to much lately from the talking heads (nightly news) about the price of a barrel of oil or what it costs us at the pumps.
Everyone must be happy with our current $5. 00 a gallon fuel at the pumps
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Everyone must be happy with our current $5. 00 a gallon fuel at the pumps
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