Filters waxing??

[steved]

Well, today was the coldest it's been this winter... and the first winter I've been running ULSD from marked pumps...



This AM I was driving to work and it was about 4*F... my low pressure light comes on, then it goes out?? It did this BS for a little bit, on-off-on



So, I finally got to a place safe enought to pull over... I have 17psi under the hood, but the FASS is hardly audible and sounds like it's straining. It is now up to around 10*F. Keep in mid I do run antigel, but I have no idea if I have enough... I should be over-treated.



I continue driving without anymore light popping on, and notice the FASS is now whining like normal... but I have been sitting in traffic for several minutes and even my thermometer is reading in the 30s now (from engine heat). I ran it the rest of the way without any issues...



Thoughts?



I read they were having issues with bio-blended ULSD in MN last couple of weeks, and I was just there and got two tanks of fuel... supposedly the bio gums up the works no matter how much antigel you use... but that should have been completely flushed out by now... over 80 gallons later.



So what do you think?? Was it cold fuel or is the FASS dying???



steved

 

[steved]

Well, must have been waxing or gelling fuel because the thing worked fine on the way home... but it was back near 25*F too. I added a bunch more antigel, and now I'm wondering if the station I got fuel at actually has winterized fuel yet because running it is night and day to other stations' "winterized" fuel.



steved

 

[Schlickenmeyer]

Yeah, I have been having problems lately. I heard the bio can come out of solution, which then freezes. I have had intermittant low pressure.

summer 12. 6 psi or so

winter 10 psi means it's at or a little below zero

suddenly I drop to 8 at idle. a day or two later back to normal. Then again this am, but it went away quicker, then I realized I was just above 'E'.

So less fuel means it warms quicker from return fuel, and the warmer fuel undoes the clog in the filter. I think.

 

[DZink24]

Friday, 5 am, Rochester NY, 3 degrees above zero, plugged in 7 hours or so, one cycle of the grid heaters, fired off without a hitch, not even really that loud, considering. I was a bit concerned, not as far as a mechanical problem, more so as a gelling issue, only one small can of Castle diesel treatment 400+ miles ago, gauge reading slightly more than 1/4 tank, about 140 DTE. Wasn't able to get to the station to get a few gals of K1 to blend thursday night.



I dont know how ME, MT, AK, WI, Canada, ect do it, I really don't. +3 can be a heat wave to them... . They're better people than me!

 

[EKlem]

If you have a freezer that goes cold enough, it may be an interesting experiment to put some different blends of fuel in it to different temperatures and look at it. The couple of times I have struggled with things gelling up, the fuel has turned a sort of milky color and you can see it.



My truck fired up at -14F this morning without being plugged in and approximately B5 in the tank. I didn't drive for very long but the fuel pressure seemed normal. The only thing that I had done to the fuel was add the recommended dose of power service.

 

[Champane Flight]

Deep freeze...

Cloud and pour points. . We have been in the deep freeze here on the eastern slope of Colorado lately. I have had no problems with the little TDI, and have not even tried to dig out the Blue Ox, it sits with a full tank of fuel (treated with cetane boost and diesel modifier) looking like a giant snow pile. The cloud and gell points of ULSD are running the same as LSD, should not be a problem. Yes, the longer you circulate warm fuel through the filters the better they will flow, but when running low levels of fuel you risk the formation of condensation in the tank, not good... Sometimes a haze on the fuel is not the cloud point, but water in your fuel... Ask, "How cold is this fuel I am looking at"? If it is above freezing, most likely water. .

 

[steved]

At 4*F, I think we were well below freezing.



I couldn't see what the fuel looked like (should have drained some out of the separator, but I didn't because that might have really put me in a bind from losing prime).



I will be driving it a lot the next couple weeks so if it was the FASS, it should show.



steved

 

[JFaughn]

MN. here , the statement about the fuel here , is like most technical maters , missing lot of info , leading to many wrong conclusions .
And I do not have all the info , just a few more pieces .
There was a statment from some sort of watch group , Flint Hills , that said the brand Golden Diesel , used in are 5 state area , ND , SD , MN , WI , had a bad batch of fuel , but that brand is at limited stations like FleetFarm [ they droped it ] and went to whats called here a winter blend [ 50% #2 & 50% #1 ]
Thats besides the state law saying that all diesel sold in the state has to have a min. 2% - b2 .
For all those riding with a few yrs. on the clock [ I mean you not the truck ] that there has always been bad batches of fuel and more than once a yr. , well now they are saying that its always the bio-diesel .

 

[steved]

MN. here , the statement about the fuel here , is like most technical maters , missing lot of info , leading to many wrong conclusions .

And I do not have all the info , just a few more pieces .

There was a statment from some sort of watch group , Flint Hills , that said the brand Golden Diesel , used in are 5 state area , ND , SD , MN , WI , had a bad batch of fuel , but that brand is at limited stations like FleetFarm [ they droped it ] and went to whats called here a winter blend [ 50% #2 & 50% #1 ]

Thats besides the state law saying that all diesel sold in the state has to have a min. 2% - b2 .

For all those riding with a few yrs. on the clock [ I mean you not the truck ] that there has always been bad batches of fuel and more than once a yr. , well now they are saying that its always the bio-diesel .

My main concern about that bad batch of MN fuel was the fact that it was reported in the same timeframe I was up there... I may or may not have gotten some of that fuel.



But it most likely it had no effect on my problem... I think I got a batch of non-winterized #2, and that was most likely the issue.



steved

 

[Champane Flight]

Outside temps

At 4*F, I think we were well below freezing.



I couldn't see what the fuel looked like (should have drained some out of the separator, but I didn't because that might have really put me in a bind from losing prime).



I will be driving it a lot the next couple weeks so if it was the FASS, it should show.



steved

Yes the outside temps were 4*, but what was the fuels temp? Even with a straight batch of #2 you should be good to -10 -20... Yes the bio could be the root of your problem.

 

[steved]

Yes the outside temps were 4*, but what was the fuels temp? Even with a straight batch of #2 you should be good to -10 -20... Yes the bio could be the root of your problem.

I would assume the fuel was very near the same temp since it sat outside for the previous couple days and the timer only kicks on at 2AM and I start it at 7AM. It's not like the block heater help hold any residual heat in the fuel. I don't have the luxury of a heated garage...



I also had around 1/2 tank of fuel, so there was/wasn't a lot of fuel to hold "heat"...



steved

 

[RustyJC]

I have a Westach dual combo fuel pressure gauge that reads pre-filter and post-filter fuel pressure. Normally, I see about 2 PSIG difference at a cold start which drops to 1. 5 PSIG when the fuel recirculates enough to warm up. Here lately, since about the time ULSD arrived, I've been seeing 3. 5 to 4 PSIG difference when the fuel is cold (only around 50 degF this morning on the northwest side of Houston), returning to the expected 1. 5 PSIG after 20 or 30 miles.



I've been running this fuel pressure gauge since just after taking delivery on the truck on 8/15/01, so I have a pretty good idea of what happens with tank-to-tank variations. And, yes, the fuel filter element was changed out about 5K miles ago.



Rusty

 

[Turbo Tim 1]

ULSD definantely has some issues, at least over here on the east coast. At 20 degrees my fuel pressure is a rock solid 14. 5 psi upon start-up and on the road I can't pull it below 10 psi. Temperature have been below zero here, at zero degrees I have 5-8 psi at start-up and can pull it to 0 at 35 mph in fourth gear, after letting the truck run and warm up and then being in a heated garage for 45 minutes while getting inspected my fuel pressure was almost back to normal, pretty much stay between 9-13 psi. This was with a dose of Stanadyne (everytime) and then a little PS after a day or so to see if it would help and it didn't.

 

[steved]

Well, my thoughts were confirmed: I asked the station attendant about whether the fuel was winterized or not and he said "he knew they added additives to it," but he couldn't tell me if it was actually a blend of #1/#2. He simply stated they add additives to it and that he didn't think it was a blended fuel.



While it is sorta cool to find this out, it doesn't hold well with me that Howe's didn't prevent a gel up... so I'm going to look at Stanadyne and see how it stacks up.





steved

 

[RTillery]

I have been running Stanadyne here in Colorado. I recently had to cross the mountains early one morning going to Craig and ran through some -35degrees and was a little worried but chugged through no problems. I attribute it to the fuel they are selling here locally, ULSD but no bio that I know of. I also started out at about +5 degrees and I am sure the fuel heater was working to keep her warm. One reason I went with the 95Fass only was I wanted to keep the stock fuel heater in place. I put about 4-6 ozs of Performance Formula in with every fillup.



Funny thing about Stanadyne, on the way home I filled back up and the bottle I had in the back of the truck was almost frozen. I have read it goes into solution in the diesel and does it's job but at cold temps it will freeze up itself. At -35 it must have been working ok.



One other thing I noticed, I was running along with the cruise on at about

-30 and saw some ice on the road up ahead. I tapped my brakes, and the pedal felt very stiff. I came to a place where I could ease into the brakes and they worked ok but the pedal was no where near normal for feel. I guess the power steering fluid had stiffened up too and was giving less assist to the brakes.



I think the bio in the fuel you were running was the culprit. Fine in the warmer times, and if you have a chance to get your truck warmed up and the fuel circulating, probably ok in winter, but certainly not ideal.

 

[Schlickenmeyer]

The thing for me is that we ran 2% bio before ULSD and no problems at all. I recall no posts to this effect. So either something with the additives or something removed during processing is allowing the bio to come out of solution.

My truck behaves as is clots are going through it. I will warm up an start to get back to normal pressures and then drop back to 8psi idle. and then a few minutes later I got back to normal. and it's too erratic to be a lift pump.

This new fuel is (expletive deleted).

 

[steved]

I'm not even sure it had anything to do with bio, but was more from the simple fact the fuel wasn't winterized.



steved

 

[Champane Flight]

Or water.....

I'm not even sure it had anything to do with bio, but was more from the simple fact the fuel wasn't winterized.



steved

I would say a shot of water, or even laid down bio. Your non-winterized straight #2 should still be good to -10, or lower...

 

[Turbo Tim 1]

I e-mailed Hess the other day because I buy 99% of my fuel there and asked them some questions about the new ULSD, here is what they had to say.

Your message was sent to our Quality Control Lab and they responded:





1. Is your fuel winterized with Kerosene?



Yes, our fuel is winterized for the normal expected temperatures for this time of year. We are using Ultra Low Sulfur Kero and CFPP (cold filter plugging point) additives in your area.



2. What temperature is the fuel in my area going to gell?



We are guaranteeing a -9° degF operability our of our Rensselaer Terminal in January and February.



3. Do you add lubricity improvers?



We use Innospec OLI-9101. x, a synthetic ester lubricity additive containing Stadis 425 conductivity improver in ULSD and ULSK.



4. Should I be adding cold flow and lubricity additives?



If you are going outside the marketing area or if abnormal temps are expected you should protect your vehicle further.



We appreciate your patronage, thank you for writing.

After getting this reply I did a search on Innospec and found some even more interesting reading Check out this set of Charts it seems the cloud point of ULSD is 14 degrees above zero.



As a note it was down to -10 the other day when I was having issues so I would suspect Hess's number of -9 is pretty accurate. And non-winterized ULSD is definantely not good to -10. Also during my search I found a governement report that said 90% of all diesel currently made is ULSD so the chances of finding LSD are getting slim.

 

[steved]

Wow, only +10*F?? That would explain my issues at 4*F the other day.



steved