Fire extinguisher recommendations???

['956Wheel]

Now that members "in the know" have posted, it would seem that halon & dry chem. (one each) would be the best bet. I do not think dry chem would do the engine any good in a "run-away"! But then how many run-aways do you know of ... first hand.



I think I'll stick with Halon. But the crash scenerio (previous post) can occur and is a reality. DRIVE CAREFULLY



What about the dragster "push button" thing... maybe for the super bombed.

 

[Loren]

Don,



I guess I might add a dry chemical extinguisher to the Halon I'm already carrying. It can't hurt to have a choice.



I don't know what agent is used for aircraft engine fire extinguishers, but I expect that it is Halon. Except for the single water extinguisher, the only type you will find in the cabin is Halon 1211. I know it's not wise to use them in an enclosed space, but it sure beats having an airplane on fire.



I was told that the FAA allows Halon 1211 in the cabin because it is so much more effective at extinguishing fires than the safer alternatives. I don't know if that story is correct, but the Halon extinguishers remain.



Loren

 

[Alaskaskiff]

Halon

The numbers on halon tell part of the story. If you look at the chemical breakdown of halon its principal ingredients are spelled out in quantity per the numbers. The third digit is the number of chlorine atoms in the formula. Obviously not good for us! So, 1211 is really bad for us as is and 1301 (no chlorine) is not. However, when halon is sucked into an internal combustion engine and combusted it makes phosgene gas which is deadly after some exposure. There is a new substitute for Halon which is becoming more affordable called FE-240, normally seen for sale for closed boat engine rooms. A -10 rated extinguisher goes for about $150 right now, but getting cheaper.



Taking all this into consideration, I have a 10BC rated 1211 entiguisher for my truck since I don't want to deal with the dry powder mess.

 

[Scot]

Ok I am a fireman and work part time in the fire protection business working on fire alarms, extinguishers, sprinklers and fire supression systems. The company I work for also does hydro testing to 10K lbs and has the capability to do CNG cylinders on transit buses.



That said. Non DOT extinguishers (ie most dry chem) in commercial applications are required to be tagged every year. This inspection consists of making sure it is operational (ie no damage or missing parts) the gauge is in the green. If it is not all in the green, recharge it. Thump the gauge and make sure it

moves. Turn it upside down and hold it while you whack it with a soft plastic hammer. Repeat if necessary. When the powder is unpacked, you will feel it bounce almost like jello or a spring. Make sure no little creatures have built their home in the discharge hose. The manufacture date can be on a decal, stamped in the base ring or bottom. Sometimes it is hard to find.



At 6 years (non DOT) the extinguisher is discharged and recharged. The valve stem and valve o ring are replaced.



At 12 years, do 6 yr plus hydrostat to 5/3 of operating pressure.





In personal use, as long as the gauge is in the green and you can get the powder to bounce call it good assuming no damage or bad rust.





DOT cylinders will be labeled DOT XXXX on the base ring or neck area. This includes both steel and aluminum cylinders like O2, CO2, N2, Acetylene etc. and a few dry chem extinguishers. They require a 5 yr hyro schedule unless they have a star after the hydro stamp in which case they go to 10 yrs.



Composite fiberglass over aluminum DOT cylinders such as fire dept SCBA cylinders hydro every 3 years and have a life span of 15 yrs after manufacture date.



Halon extinguishers are great except for the cost of buying and refilling them. If you pull off the road to help some guys car that is on fire, are you willing to fork out $100 for a 5lb or $200 for a 10lb refill? I think we charge something like $15 for a 10lb drychem refill. Then there is the problem of phosgene gas which is generated at high temperature. The Germans used phosgene to good effect in the trenches of WWI.



My recommendation is a 5lb ABC or BC in the cab and a 10lb in the tool box. Do not buy one with a plastic valve! As a side note, a person hit in the face with a good blast of dry chem will usually quit doing what he was doing. It also might be handy to break the window out if you were trapped.

 

[Shelby Griggs]

Halotron 1 ??

I have a 2 1/2 pound Halotron 1 rated at 2BC for use on my Ram. I also carry a 5 pound dry chemical extinguisher (Ammonium Phosphate) rated at 3A / 40BC for anything the Halotron 1 can't get and for everything away from my Ram, such as other vehicles, brush fires, etc.



Hopefully this combination will fight most any fires I encounter and will give me the chance to use a clean agent inside my cab or engine compartment. A mess is better than a burned out rig, but the powder is a pain to clean up.



Shelby

 

[JohnE]

I did a lot of research on this around 6 months ago and here is what I learned.



Halon and Halotron is not good around people and diesels. Diesels can ingest and digest halon and keep on running without stopping. The exhaust may be phosgene or several relatives just as deadly.



Marine systems use halon AND a secondary method to halt airflow to the engine and the engine compartment. Halons keep it cleaner and the secondary method will stop the engine, even with a runaway turbo.



Halons (and freons) are only slightly toxic in themselves. They kill by replacing oxygen and you suffocate. Many A/C people are suffocated each year by Freon. Phosgene works in the same manner except it is much more effective at replacing oxygen. Once it settles in your lungs it is very difficult to exhaust.



FWIW

We only use AMEREX suppression systems on our diesel and CNG powered units with the same ammonium phosphate as any dry chemical unit. The unit dumps 25 pounds through 6-8 nozzles in the engine compartment. It makes a big mess when they go off!



John

 

[Doubleclutch]

We had some fire training at work one year- the kind that makes you appreciate how little a fire extinguisher can do. A lil' gal from Admin was next in line to put out the flaming pit of fire. Our fire god made the mistake of handing her a Halon extinguisher. Put it out with gas to spare! Most impressive!!! I'm told Halon is still being made in China- I guess they didn't sign any treaties. Would love to hear a supplier of said extingushers. Any ideas?

 

[Don M]

Halon is still available.

You can still get Halon. Try h3r.com.

They are selling portables. Remember the Halogenated agents are effective on fires like Doubleclutch is speaking of. Not too effective on class A fires such as grass, paper, wood, etc.



Don~





DRY CHEMICAL DRY CHEMICAL!!!!

 

[Scot]

Originally posted by Doubleclutch

We had some fire training at work one year- the kind that makes you appreciate how little a fire extinguisher can do. A lil' gal from Admin was next in line to put out the flaming pit of fire. Our fire god made the mistake of handing her a Halon extinguisher. Put it out with gas to spare! Most impressive!!! I'm told Halon is still being made in China- I guess they didn't sign any treaties. Would love to hear a supplier of said extingushers. Any ideas?

I might be able to find you a used one if you are interested. We also can get the halon replacement extinguishers new but they are *high*.



The other thing is you have to do the hazmat fee thing when you ship them.

 

[Scot]

While I am on the topic of fire extinguishers, thought I would add a few points.



When you have an engine fire, inevitably one of the first things that fails is the hood release mechanism. It might be worth your while to ponder how you would cope with this. Having recently been to a 2nd gen gasser fire, we knocked out the remaining part of the black louver grill on the drivers side and were able to grab the cable with pliers.



When you open the hood, if you have much of an engine fire, expect it to roll up in your face.



Batteries can and do explode. Sulfuric acid is not your friend.



Bumpers can shoot off when the heat cooks off the gas struts. This is rare, fortunantly, and if the fire is to this point, you are going to be spitting in the wind with a handheld drychem. This also goes for the small hood/hatch struts.



Tires will "explode" pop after burning for a short period. While *I have not heard of injuries from this,* expect to shovel out your pants if you are standing nearby. After 14 years in the business, it still wakes me up.



Dodge uses a magnesium alloy on the steering columns. Once lit, only a "D" extinguisher is going to put it out. Got to see several going at once at Alan Samuals Dodge service department some years ago. Not much is left of the interior when this lights off.

 

[Fireman]

Well Jim you ask for it !

I think Don and Scot have pretty well covered it, and then some.



Fireman

 

[WyoJim]

Well you are right fireman56!!

This is one helluvan informative thread. More than I ever expected.



Scots tidbit at the end about the difficulty in being able to open the hood, wow, if the hood won't open, you can't do much about an under the hood fire.



Seems like the old saying "haste makes waste" had better be forgotten.



At the first wisp of smoke pop the hood, grab the extinguisher (probably dry chemical and readily accessible) and put it out. If unsuccessful, get the hell away from it.



Dry runs, step by step in ones mind will help condition ones response and help overcome panic.



Where am I wrong??



WyoJim

 

[dan_gilson]

Scot makes some good points.



In the engine fire that I had in a very old truck

I had a broken fuel line which was pumping fuel

onto the top of the intake manifold. I had read

an article previously not to fully open the hood

so I just cracked it using a rag to protect my

hand. One very short shot with a dry chem and

that sucker was out cold. Now the real fun began.

The cleanup was a real pain.



The older radiator that I had you could shot the

extinguisher through the radiator.

I do not think this would work as well through

the narrow fins of the A/C grill.

 

[Fireman]

Lest we forget

There is one other point that could be made, I am suprised no one mentioned it. Too caught up in fire extinguishers I suppose. How about a cell phone. I know there some remote places out in Wyo, Mont. SD, ND etc, but in the east and on the left coast help is always near by. DIAL 911

Dial 911 and make a fireman come

 

[JAK]

One note about the dry chems: If you stand them up right the contents will pack into the bottom very tight and very quickly when bouncing around in a truck. Gives the rubber mallet a good workout. Those that are layed down are much easier to shake up. I check my ABC at each oil change and never need to pound on it like the ones that are upright on the fire trucks. And those get the shake up every week.