Fire-Rings, Studs, Compunds, and a blown gasket

[Cory]

Got everything installed last night. Fire-rings, composite gasket, ARP studs, torqued to 105 lb ft, ATS compounds, FASS, fired it up, have a slight knock, sounds, sounds like either a wrist pin or valves. I held my stethescope(sp) to the valve cover, the block, pan, and it it very loud on Cyl# 5 on the block. As I moved from front to back on valve cover, noise gets louder. When sitting in driver seat, the knock sounds like it is coming from the turbos. When the compounds spool, the knock goes away. Which makes sense if its a wrist pin, cause as soon and you build the boost, it puts enough pressure on the pistion to hold it in place. As I was searching for this knock, I noticed there is oil leaking from the headgasket on the driver side of engine at cyl#1. There was nothing wrong with the head gasket, and when I installed the head, I did not slide it at all, so I am wondering if the head lifted off the block?? ARP's maybe? Well, I am going to wait until I have all my parts to go back together with it until I tear it apart.

Would anybody have any input on this?

 

[jwilliams3]

105 ft lbs is not sufficient torque with studs. The ARP directions are incorrect.



At the minimum at this point you are going to need to pull the head.



I think you just wasted a bunch of money on firerings because your probably going to have to buy new fire rings, possibly get the head decked and a new head gasket.

 

[Cory]

What is the torque on the studs?

 

[jwilliams3]

122ft lbs seems to be the standard here on TDR.

 

[Luken]

I do 125ft lbs... I think the best thing to do is start out with the stock mls gasket and studs and see if it holds it. It's a little late for that tho.

 

[jwilliams3]

If your taking the head off dont forget to bottom tap the block for the studs.

 

[Cory]

Power by Poole was telling me 105. Do you torque the whole head once ato 125? Because I stepped it up. I did 45 lb ft, then 75, then 105. Its blowing oil out pretty bad, I am wondering if a stud craked or broke?? Well, After I get ym shop cleaned up from the first go around, it will be back in there tomorrow getting tore down. I also have a real bad knock. It disappears when the turbos spool. I have a feeling it is a wrist pin on cyl #5.

 

[jwilliams3]

The first time I did studs I used the step sequence along with the Cummins torque pattern.

Then I overchecked torque.



Overall though with the odd noise you talk about it sounds like you have a more serious issue at hand..... Possibly more than one issue.



Please let us know what happens when you get the head off and post pictures if you can.

 

[WDimig]

did the truck have a knock before you did the head gasket??? i dont see how having a bad head gasket would have all of a suden caused this "knock"?



wes

 

[zstroken]

Unless the valves might not be set right. Pushrods not seated? Possible interference. I would think it would get worse as you rev it up though. You might just not hear it over the engine once it is reved.

 

[Cory]

There wasnt a knock before I replace the head gasket. So when I go to retorque, what are your recomendations? Step it up to 125? Or torque all to 125 the first time?

 

[Cory]

Ok, I got the head off. Appears that the gasket is not damaged or blown. From what it looks like is that there was not enough torque on the studs to crush the rings, and the rings were keeping the head off the block just enough to keep the head gasket from sealing. Either that or I installed the wrong fire rings. The head was groved out to . 006" and the rings I got from Haisley Machine were . 103". Thats what the machine shop told me to get. So, looks like new rings and gasket and a retorque on the studs. Which by the way I am wondering if the studs are reusable?

 

[ctd8999]

Yes the studs are re-useable.

 

[GWoody]

Ok, I got the head off. Appears that the gasket is not damaged or blown. From what it looks like is that there was not enough torque on the studs to crush the rings, and the rings were keeping the head off the block just enough to keep the head gasket from sealing. Either that or I installed the wrong fire rings. The head was groved out to . 006" and the rings I got from Haisley Machine were . 103". Thats what the machine shop told me to get. So, looks like new rings and gasket and a retorque on the studs. Which by the way I am wondering if the studs are reusable?

Are you saying the groove in the head is . 006 deep? If so that means you have . 097 ring to crush before the gasket touches the head, I'm not a machinist but that seems like too much.

 

[Jim Fulmer]

Why did you want to run Fire Rings anyway? An O-Ring has more than proven it's self over the years. With my . 051 wire and 18 thou protrusion I have never had a head gasket problem and I have say 70K on it total time and everyone know what it has been through with me.



Jim