Fire truck was a no start.

[Truckie]

Well I was out and abought to day and I got a phone call from one of other fire fighters to day and said they could not get out ladder truck to start, so I thought o boy i better get to the station to see whats up.

Well first of its a 2001 American La France with a 500hp CUMMINS.

Oh yea it runs and es I started to bomb it. shush don't let the chief know.

Well the problem was it would not start but it had all kinds of power to run the lights and electrical stuff, and the starter would just click, so I got out the old trusty hammer and gave the starter a tap and tried it no luck, so i was messing around with the battery connections and they were all good and the battery's were all charged. So i started to trace the wire from the starter to the battery and there was a place where it was pinched, but the wire was also loose going to the starter, I fixed that and also noticed there was a bolt missing from the starter so I tightened up all the other ones and got the truck started and took it to the garage where one of our members work there and went over the whole electrical system and replaced the pinched wire replaced the bolt and while I was at it i found a place where one of the air lines was rubbing the drive shat and i had to replace it also and move it out of the way.

The whole afternoon was spent working on this truck, I guess thats what you get when you are the engineer o well.

As far as bombing it while I was working on it you know the silencer ring had to come out of the turbo and I also re routed some duct work to get more air in, I was thinking of taking the muffler off but i thought i might get in trouble with the chief if you know what i mean but there was some bombing started.

Mike

 

[Rosco]

Truckie, If I was in your shoes I don't think I would be messing around with equipment I did not own. Just imagine if that Cummins needed some warranty work and the mechanic told the fire chief that the truck has been tampered with and the claim is denied. Now your community has to eat a bill on a expensive piece of apparatus.

 

[Truckie]

Well just taking the silencer ring out is not going to void the warranty, and as far as trying to get more fresh air in will not void warranty. The set up they have on these fire trucks are a pore design and I have seen other departments that have done this and it had mad a major improvement as far as the operation of the engine goes. I know i would catch hell if i took the muffler off so that is why it is still on there, its hard enough trying to here in these things as it is let a lone straight piping them. Don't worry I wont do anything to void warranty, I just hate having to do the dealers work for free at times as they are morons if you know what i mean. If iwould have called the dealer to take care of this I would still probably be waiting for them. I talked to my best buddy who is a fire truck mechanic and he said what i did is OK.

Mike

 

[Will24]

You explained your whole problem in your first sentence - ALF!









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[Ncostello]

Do you have a direct drive fan on your Cummins in the LaFrance application? I am very close to getting our chief to let me install a Horton fan on ours because the ISC direct drive fan, coupled with the exhaust brake, and MD3060 transmission downshifting during braking makes it impossible to hear even yelling. This is in a 2000 KME Excel custom cab application.



The Horton would make the cab much quieter much of the time. The cooling system is so large on this truck that it never goes over 170 under any situation. In fact... it usually hovers around 160 which bothers me since the Cummins manual says 155 is the min operating temp range.



This truck is a big rescue pumper and the little 330 HP ISC 8. 3 moves it along quickly... and it pumps 1500 GPM all day long with absolutely no strain to the engine. Its much faster and responsive than an almost identical KME (Another departments near here) I rode in that had a Detroit Series 40 350 HP. That Detroit was slow off the line and took forever to gain speed. We were getting passed by Chevettes!!

 

[TboneMan]

Truckie,



What kind of insurance do you have? If something fails on the apparatus and the peice is involved in an accident, you could be held liable.



We have opted for getting our apparatus serviced only by insured and certified mechanics. Drivetrain work is usually done at a big rig repair shop, and the "fire" stuff is done at the local apparatus distributer.



While they could mess up too, it gives you some peice of mind that no one in the department is directly involve.

 

[R.E. Miller]

Not to ruffle feathers here, but after working in the truck side of a Cummins distributorship for over a year, I can say a few things that are of course off the record, and are personal observations only. The ISM 500 is a powerful beast, not the highest Hp that the M-11 base engine puts out, but it is up there in the ranks. Getting it more air is a real sweet idea, most OEM's would forget to mount a starter switch if it were not for having to actually fire the things up to deliver them, let alone do anything that might make sense in the engine fitting department. The biggest, I mean BIGGEST liability issue with playing with the air handling systems on any diesel engine is that of dust ingestion. I have gone through hundreds of engines, and everyone here might laugh, but I spent a fair amount of time on every engine I tore down/finished-up "Fiddling" with the air handling system. One small leak you cannot see or hear without a dyno, or a pressure tester can at a minimum cause low power, but can lead to dusting. Unfortunately for diesel geeks like me, I have to admit that I used to get a bit teary-eyed when a troubleshooting job would end up with dust ingestion as the cause All that good equipment/capitol lost over something simple. Just because it is simple does not mean that it is difficult to screw-up. The little o-rings that seal the 90* fitting on the outlet of the turbos are actually real good locations of air leaks... ... I know, how the $$$$ do you mess that up, but then again, I have heard of guys putting heads on gassers and leaving a rag in one of the holes?????? Wonder why it don't turn over??? Anyway, I am a American, therefore I hot rod, and I enjoy it, but I would strongly recommend sticking to your own equipment no matter how fast the diesel wheel science and performance spools-up in your head. Honestly, in the shop I worked at at times I would step back and look at the truck/engine and think, "You know, if that was like this..... ", but back to work I would go.



Just my $. 02

Russell

 

[Truckie]

Ncostello On that 2001 American La France ladder truck we have we are still running the stock cooling fan system, which I think is already a Horton, it will kick on and off as needed but when it dose kick on it sounds like a super charger under there, and as far as the down shifting part the noise level dose not pick up. The noise level in side the truck while it is down shifting is not bad at all, you can here each other speak, but you do have to speak up a bit. The engine temp on this engine is running around 180. I can run the truck all day long and it not go over 180 and that is pumping it at 2000 gpm. ALaF did a grate job in insulting the cab and dog box to keep out noise. The truck has fairly good pick up speed for carrying 300 gallons of water 1000 ft of 5 inch, 2 inch and three quarter cross lays @ 200ft and a 2 and a half @ 200ft plus all the additional tools and ground ladders. I'm impressed with its agility while weighing in @ 74,000 lbs.



As far a everybody else worrying bout the warranty and the liability part there is none. I am the chief engineer for the department and have the chiefs permission to do the work he sees fit for me to do or that I can handle. The problem was simple the engine would not start I found the problem which I stated was a pinched wire, and the wire going to the starter was loose, and while doing that I saw the starter had a bolt missing, simple to replace the missing bolt, no liability there. The pinched wire was simple just replace the wire and put on new end, Simple no liability there. The air line that was rubbing against the drive shift cut out the bad section and replace with new piece and brass fittings, no liability there, except the fact the dealer did not see that during the prep, so I fixed it also. If I was to call the dealer to come out and fix these simple problems on that Saturday afternoon they probably would not have been there till some time after 5:00 pm and it was noon time when I found this and had it all fixed by 1:30 pm my self. If doing simple work on this type of equipment was so bad or wrong than don't you think what we do to our pick ups is wrong to and will cause a liability because we did not have a certified mechanic do the work, such as fuel and air mods, lift kits, bigger tires different steering set ups etc, what I did was simple and every day maintenance as far as I'm concerned, why should I put my ladder truck out of service for 5 to 6 hours while I wait for the dealer to come fix it or they say have it towed to us then it would be out of service for 2 days. I think being out of service for 2 hours is better than 2 days Now when it comes to major work like the pump, ladders, areal, and tranney,it is sent out to the proper people.

Mike