Firefighter deaths due to endangered salmon

[John Berger]

Is it just me or does everybody else think it's about time to take our country back from the enviro-nazi's that have given us all of these dangerous regulations delegating people to lower status than a fish. Four firefighters are dead because environmentalists do not want helicopters scooping water out of a river where a certain type of fish lives. We are going to hell in a handbasket. The only reason we aren't there yet is due to a shortage of handbaskets. Puh-lease beam me up, Scotty!!! There is no intelligent life down here.



The link takes you to Rush Limbaugh's site and his take on this. I'm sure there are plenty of other links to this story out there.



http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_080201/content/wackos_kill.guest.html

 

[Straight6Jeff]

The tyrade that Dennis Leary goes on in the movie "demolition Man" sums it up rather well.



In a way I'm glad my truck only gets 7. 5 mpg because i get to drive it in Cambridge MA. This place has a HUGE pergentage of Tree Hugging, Narrow MInded, granola crunchin, Hemp-wearin, no-deodorant wearin, "Save the Everything at a humans expense" people. I KNOW that they must shiver when they see how much fuel I waste just by driving down the street.



The Firefighters should have thrown the Enviro-nazis on teh fire. Oh wait, that wouldn't have helped... . SH&* burns.

 

[The Cummins Kid]

Back in '94 while rock climbing and repelling with some army buddies over the week end, we had some enviro- nazi's cut some of our ropes. thank goddness they were only the reppelling lines and not the top ropes which we had set up for the first time climbers!!! you've heard of HALO jumps. Well, they almost got a quick lesson in HANO jumps( High Altitude No Open)!! Ever see a enviro -weenie with pi$$ running down the leg of his hemp pants?

 

[mdlowry]

Some humor

Came across this on the Neil Boortz web page:



#ad

 

[Andy Perreault]

Now, wait a minute... isn't a forest fire harmful to salmon?? If a forest burns, what happens when the next rain storm hits? The rain doesn't soak into the ground because there's no plant life to hold it in place on the hillsides. Mudslides, ash, and silt end up in rivers and lakes. The very same lakes that the helicopters couldn't take water from, right? Seems to me it would have been better to harm a few salmon by scooping out water, rather than to harm all of the ones in that lake by letting it get clogged and de-oxidized from silt and ash.

But, I know, common sense has nothing to do with it. What matters is that there are some who think that they have the right to make all of the decisions and have all of the power, in order to ram their agenda down our throats. They don't care about the salmon, they care about themselves and the power they have over us.

Andy

 

[illflem]

Another very important point is that wild fires burn vegetation that shades streams and lakes causeing elevated water temps also killing fish.

 

[Champane Flight]

Known!

I don't believe this one,sorry Rush.



Those folks(firefighters)Know the danger they face every day. They have a rough time of it,following some ego-maniac into a known danger zone. It was known long before they sent these kids in that water couldn't be pulled from that stream/lake. Whose fault is it then?The idiot that sent them in!!!!!!!! All this story does is throw a little more fire to a already tense situation. To classify a whole group as enviromental whakcos(Rushs scientific term,shows his real adgenda)Is not quite right folks... ... ... . Its bad enough these heroic men and women have given there lives for the enviroment(they loved). But some idiot with a radio show has to make some sensationalist comment,trying to bend it to his adgenda... ...

 

[Lhotka]

John,



I am not sure I understand your attempt to be rational. We may have environmental nazis vs. hate loving exploit everything extremists on opposite ends of the spectrum, but both groups have their place. As rational people we tend to fall somewhere in between. Hummm... ... lets blame those fireman deaths on the FAA. They issue flight worthy certificates that limit the useful payloads of aircraft. Just think how much more fire retardant those aircraft could carry to fires without all those government regulations!! More fire retardant equals less fire. Less fire means we save fireman's lives right? Has anyone ever considered that the person who negligently started the fires may shoulder some of the responsibility for the fireman's deaths. OR am I a total nut and stretching things a bit?? Some parts of this country still rely on the responsible use of their natural resources to make a living. Fishing here is a large part of our economy that people rely on to pay their bills and feed the kids. Take away the salmon, destroy it's habitat, and you take away a way of life.

 

[Archive]

The enviromentalist experts last had their way of doing things when Yellowstone Park burned to the ground..... I'm 100% with Rush and John on this one. The local economy wasn't the issue. This was a matter of human live and death. If this idiotic policy had been instituted by a conservative PAC, someone would be facing manslaughter charges right now.

 

[Lhotka]

TopFuel,



The decision to let the fire burn in Yellow Stone was made by Land Managers not "environmentalist experts". Land managers manage lands for a variety of uses from mining and grazing to recreational use. Do they all hold environmentalist views? I don't think so! Many ignorant people hold the view that if you don't rape, pillage, scar, or kill everything that lives... ... your automatically an environmentalist. What happpened to the firefighters is tragic, place the blame where it belongs. It is sick to make a political issue out of it.

 

[Archive]

Originally posted by Lhotka

John,



lets blame those fireman deaths on the FAA.

Geez, couldn't you have picked a different agency of the government to blame? I work for the FAA!



I don't know what is to blame, but if someone's life would have been spared, (do we know this for sure?), I would not have hesitated to take the water. Water from one place would not kill off the salmon species, which also could have been re-planted.



It is a tragedy that these young people lost their lives. I would think our efforts (those of the investigators) would better serve us if they found out how to prevent it from happening again, as opposed to who is guilty.

 

[danandamy]

I read about this on a news site. The guy (I think it was the head of Beuro of Land Managment but not sure) who was one of the head honchos was even po'd on this. He said their standing policy was that they take the water first and deal with environmental issues later. Just because the info came off Rush L. 's site doesn't discount the facts of what happened. I think CNN is a liberal cespool, but if they report on a plane crashing, regardless of what slant they may or may not put on it, the fact that the plane crashed still remains. These guys got killed-FACT. One of the contributing factors was that water was withheld for environmental reasons-FACT. They're not arguing that point, their just investigating to try and find someone to blame.

Sick to make a political issue out of it? It IS a political issue, that's exactly where this kind of crap comes from-politics.

I don't think dipping the water out would have destroyed the salmon. Even if it did, ending a way of life? Guess those guys way of life was ended, hope the folks who depend on the salmon have a good year.

Not trying to flame here but I'm sick of stuff that is just plain wrong being rationalized away. What happened here and the circumstances surrounding it are just plain wrong and shouldn't be rationalized away with stuff like, "Well, it's part of their job," or "It's wrong to make a political point out of such a tragedy," when politics was one of the key factors is getting these guys killed.

 

[Fireman Dave]

You know when we fight wildland fires, our priotities are in this order.



1. Protect Life

2. Protect Property

3. Protect Resources



It seems to me that when #1 is on the line, #3 should be out the window no matter what. I don't know a lot about the details of this story - and I think it's tough for us to be able to comment intelligently on it when our information isn't first hand. I'm sure there's much more to it, but it reminds me of the way the US fought in Vietnam - tactics were dictated by politicians rather than the people who actually knew what they were doing. Ain't this politically correct world we live in grand?



I agree it's a shame that it's getting exploited. Make no mistake about it - Rush Limbaugh has only one agenda - making money. Whatever pushes people's buttons and gets the ratings up (thereby increasing ad revenue, etc... ) becomes a "crusade" for the talk show people. And the news loves nothing more than a tragedy. School shooting, tornado, plane crash - they just love 'em all. They even package them up with dramatic music and visual intros. It's just wonderful.



No matter what the true story is, 4 people made the ultimate sacrifice. My heart goes out to their families and the firefighters who worked along side them. Placing blame accomplishes nothing. Correcting the problems is the answer.

 

[John Berger]

Don't shoot the messenger due to the message. There are alot of people who care about the environment but realize that when human life is in danger, there are certain common sense principles that should automatically come into play. The thing that bugs me about the extremists in the environmental movement is that if you disagree with them it automatically (in their minds and in their rhetoric) means that you don't care what happens to the environment. I challenge any of these so-called environmentalists to produce evidence of another human being who likes to breathe dirty air or drink contaminated water. I've never met anyone like that and I doubt that such a person exists. And this tragedy had everything to do with politics and nothing at all to do with common sense. Four people are dead!!! Where has all of the common sense gone?

 

[ScooterH]

Are these environmental extremist really that concerned about the enviroment, or is it a roundabout way to accomplish what I believe to be their #1 objective, Socialism. What better way to run people off their land than to declare that land inhabited by some "endangered" species of whatever.

 

[Archive]

Lhotka,



Sorry I refered to your "Land Managers" as environmental experts. You are right. They are farthest thing from being an expert about the environment as anyone I can think of. I'm sure now thats why Uncle Sam pays them for their terrific decision making skills. If you are one, then I hope you do a better job of it than the "It's only mother nature... . let it burn" Land Managers did at Yellowstone.

No, I don't subscribe to the ignorant notion of raping, pillaging, scarring and killing everything that lives, and I have no family or friends that I'm aware of that do. Thats a false image created by Hollywood. The Hollywood elite have tried to stick that image to every successful business or businessman in the country. They are socialists. Of course, the environmental damage inflicted by the entertainment industry doesn't count. You know, the remnants of blowing up a small city and crashing and burning about a 150 cars and trucks for an "action" film. That kind of important stuff is Okay.

This entire issue is POLITICAL. If Rush or Fox news had not reported it - it wouldn't have been covered. Period. Just look at the "extensive" coverage Dandy Dan and CBS have given Condit's "I wanna be a Player like Billy Clinton" scandal.

BTW, I own and campout in a 31 foot travel trailer. Does that make me a good or a bad person environmentally?

 

[SlyBones]

There was a nice 4-5 page writeup on this fire in last sundays ( a week ago ) seattle times. I read the entire thing. Seems to me there is more to it that just the water issue. The way this fire spread and how fast it moved, and jumped fire breaks, etc. Even with helicopters dropping water, it may have happened anyways.



The 4 were part of a group of 14 or so, including 2 hikers that were caught in there. For a while they radio'd they were safe. Until the fire turned on them. Many got in the river and risked hypothermia from the cold water. They lived. The 4 that died climbed up a slope to some rocky area where there was not any fuel and thought the fire would not get to them. Setup the fire shelters they have. They didnt make it.