First actual tow with 2013 RAM 2500 SLT 4x4 CC

[Bug Out]

I started the day off by taking the 5th wheel( 2007 Forest River Sierra sport 40SPTS GVW 16950) and truck to the Pilot station and weighing them both. The trailer has a lot of "extras" inside and on it. The toy in the garage is a Arctic cat Prowler 650 that weights in around 1200lbs with roll cage, rear seats etc..... Ok. Here come the "weight police" . The truck has a 25000 lb GCVW rating and the GVW is 10000. The rear axle is 6200 lbs, front axle 5500. That is 11700, but listed as 10k GVW.





The front axle was lighter then when empty, 4520lbs empty 4530... Don't ask why. . I dont know... Drive axle came in 5860... . Trailer axles at 14080. ( I have 3-6K axles ) GCVW 24460.



Technically I'm under the listings, depending on which your following. I follow the tires with single rating are 3150+-(6300) A FEW POUNDS. Axle weight I should be fine. Its the same axle I had in my 2005 and 2012.



She tows good and the temps are OK. Engine temps, with outside at 95degree's, runs at 210 not above. transmission seems to run around 190 or so. Max to 205 but cools to 190+- 5 degree's after in lock for a few minutes. transmission went down to 188 after cruising for a while. No big grades this time. That will happen July 3rd when going to Flagstaff. The only negative I see so far is in a cross wind, I can feel the truck wiggle a little bit when the trailer catches wind. With a Dually, I never ever felt anything from the wind.



On the negative note, the transmission shift problem I reported in another post is driving me nuts... . From 4th gear to 5th gear, it goes into "unlock", takes enough time that the engine RPMS go up 3-500 rpms, then shift into 5th, then into lock. The same happens from 5th to 6th. This NEVER EVER happened with my 2012 RAM with the SAME drivetrain, transmission and engine, 350/800 and the 68 RFE. It shifted from 4th, to 5th to 6th with absolutely no notice in RPM changes that could be heard by ear.



I'm going to contact "Larry Miller" Dodge in Surprise and see what they have to say... ... . Beyond that, she did good on this trip. Average was per the truck, 9. 7 MPG. I'm inclined to believe about 8 MPG myself.

 

[Missouri Mule]

I would definitely would take it to a dealer so they can check out the trans components and sensors!

 

[Cummins12V98]

I don't believe your front axle weight is correct. My Truck in sig is at 4,500# pin weight with 100# of that hitting the front axle. My front weighs 5,180# that is with a dually! My B&W hitch is full forward.



A Dually is the appropriate rig to use on such a big RV. You may be right at Max combined but there is still a lot of BOX for a single rear wheel to handle. As you said you never felt the truck being moved around with the dually.



Good luck.

 

[NIsaacs]

I don't believe your front axle weight is correct. My Truck in sig is at 4,500# pin weight with 100# of that hitting the front axle. My front weighs 5,180# that is with a dually! My B&W hitch is full forward.

Why would his front axle weight be wrong? He weighed at a Pilot, they use Certified Cat Scales. His truck is a short bed, yours is a long bed, big difference. Last year I hauled a load of hay with my '01 2500, my weights were very close to his.



Front axle 4200

Rear axle 6120

Trailer 14600

GCW 24920



Nick

 

[Oil Stain]

Don't the 2500's come with 3. 42 gears as standard? Maybe that's why it shifts the way it does. Just a thought.

 

[Jim W]

Bug Out,
That is easy to explain by using a free body diagram. This shows you the weight compounds and how they affect the down ward components of your mass that is being applied to the trailer and truck. I believe if you were to reweight the truck and trailer with the Arctic cat removed you would see more of a load on the front axle. The 1,200 LBS is causing the front axle to have a lighter load placed on it has the mass of the trailer is rotated around the king pin joint.
Jim W.

 

[NIsaacs]

Bug Out,

I believe if you were to reweight the truck and trailer with the Arctic cat removed you would see more of a load on the front axle.

Jim W.

I don't think so. The reason for the lighter front axle weight with the trailer hooked up is the king pin is behind the rear axle center line. It has to be for the front axle to be less with a load. If you removed the Artic Cat, the king pin weight would be more and the front axle even less.



Nick

 

[RVTRKN]

Yup, Nlsaacs has it right, check the center of the pin over the center of the rear axle, a proper setup should have it slightly forward of the center of the rear axle to place a few pounds to the front axle. I don't remember the formula for it, but it will help in the stability issue. It will also help in removing weight from the rear axle for a better ride. Weight Police can argue all they want, but if your within the GAWR's your OK. But if you have an open mind, a little advise for you is to slow it down, and give a lot of room in front of you with that kind of weight, hitched to a 2500, and you'll be fine.

 

[Cummins12V98]

Why would his front axle weight be wrong? He weighed at a Pilot, they use Certified Cat Scales. His truck is a short bed, yours is a long bed, big difference. Last year I hauled a load of hay with my '01 2500, my weights were very close to his.

Front axle 4200
Rear axle 6120
Trailer 14600
GCW 24920

Nick

If his RV is a tow behind I will stand corrected. But if it is a 5er there is no way his front axle is over 300# heavier than mine.

He said his front axle weighed 5,500#. Mine is 5,180#

On edit: I just re read it his RV is a 5er. If he is adding that much weight to the front axle then he has the hitch WAY FORWARD of the center of the rear axle! Short bed has very little to do with it.

 

[Cummins12V98]

Don't the 2500's come with 3. 42 gears as standard? Maybe that's why it shifts the way it does. Just a thought.

It is going to shift like that when under a load so it won't hit hard locked to locked. It is normal.

 

[NIsaacs]

If his RV is a tow behind I will stand corrected. But if it is a 5er there is no way his front axle is over 300# heavier than mine.



He said his front axle weighed 5,500#. Mine is 5,180#

12V, the 5500# is his GAWR not his actual weight. He said his empty weight was 4530 and his loaded front axle weight was 4520.



Nick

 

[RonD]

it's the gear ratio, I don't care what the book or specs say, 3:42 gears don't work well with that kind of weight, for your sake I hope I am wrong, but I suspect within a year or so a Dually, or a smaller Toy Hauler

 

[Cummins12V98]

12V, the 5500# is his GAWR not his actual weight. He said his empty weight was 4530 and his loaded front axle weight was 4520.

Nick

Thank you! NOW I DO STAND CORRECTED!!!!!!!!!

Oh well I read it several times too.

 

[Cummins12V98]

it's the gear ratio, I don't care what the book or specs say, 3:42 gears don't work well with that kind of weight, for your sake I hope I am wrong, but I suspect within a year or so a Dually, or a smaller Toy Hauler

Ron I was a skeptic but I have no problems with the 3"42 gears and 28,240# combined. It has 6 gears that are spaced nicely I am not saying my truck would not do better but it does really good. In 5th I am at a similar rpm to you in 6th with your 4:10's.

I agree his load is too BIG for his truck he even admits the RV is controlling his truck at times. Not a good thing! But the 3:42's have nothing to do with it.

I can easily afford to go to the 4:10's front and back but so far it is not worth it even at the extremely good price Dave Smith Motors gave me at $1,800 total!

Chrysler is not going to rate his truck to pull something if it is going to destroy the running gear. Mine is not rated to tow what I do but a Chrysler high up said he would not waste the money to change my gears if I was happy. He said "it won't hurt it's self".

 

[RVTRKN]

If the 5ver pin is to the rear of the rear axle, he will experience the tail wagging the dog, and at max weight it is compounded. A neighbor of mine has a heavy 5ver with a 96 2500 LWB 12V CTD 2X2 and complains of steering issues, more so when the wind is blowing. When I installed my first 5ver hitch, I used his truck as an example and pointed out to him someone installed his hitch to the rear of the center of the axle and explained that was part of his stability issue. He has just put up with it and has never changed it. Heavy 5vers being towed by 2500's is possible, but care in driving is required.

 

[Cummins12V98]

If the 5ver pin is to the rear of the rear axle, he will experience the tail wagging the dog, and at max weight it is compounded. A neighbor of mine has a heavy 5ver with a 96 2500 LWB 12V CTD 2X2 and complains of steering issues, more so when the wind is blowing. When I installed my first 5ver hitch, I used his truck as an example and pointed out to him someone installed his hitch to the rear of the center of the axle and explained that was part of his stability issue. He has just put up with it and has never changed it. Heavy 5vers being towed by 2500's is possible, but care in driving is required.

I have installed hitches when you had to measure things and drill not like todays hitches. At that time 2" forward of the center line of the rear diff. was industry standard.

You can't believe how many people tow with their hitch behind the axle centerline and think it is fine and I have no clue.

My B&W is full Forward and with 4,500# pin weight of that only 100# is added to the front axle!

 

[Bug Out]

Actually Ram gives a diagram of where the hitch should be and it shows dead center over the center of axle, not a bit forward or behind, I recall seeing. My last 3 Dodges/RAMS have all had the hitches installed dead center over the axle, 2005, 2012 and this 2013. .

Ron d, The truck is spec'd to GCVW of 25K, and pull 17. 4k. I know 3:42's are NOT towing gears, but RAM says so this year. . Last year, the EXACT same truck, drive train etc with 4:10's was rated to pull 16. 8K, this year with 3:42's 17. 4K. Makes no sense. But if RAM is willing to say its legally rated for that, then they have to stand behind it.

I had a 2012 RAM 4x4 LB CC MAX tow dually that only towed my trailer 3X in one year. With that little of towing and the rest commute/around town, it was not worth it anymore. This truck actually pulls it good and you would never know the difference from the dually except in hard wind blowing the trailer. The next trailer will be smaller, by 1-3K in weight and 2' shorter at least.

 

[Jim W]

I know I am going to get HAMMERED for this but here go's.

Would not everyone agree that the entire drive train must be taken into account when one designs a truck for towing? Such as engine horsepower/torque, the transmission gearing, the differential ratios and the tire/rim size to establish what a truck should be able to pull efficiently and is rated for. The older model trucks had a less capable engine such as engine horsepower and torque than the 2013 engine has; agreed?

Will therefore to tow the same mass that the older trucks are capable of and maybe slightly more today with the updated model of the 2013 truck. The deferential gearing was lowered to provide a more efficient truck for towing and driving when not towing. I read somewhere on a different site that Ram had responded to this question about differential gearing. Ram stated that since the engine has more torque ability and horsepower now the differential gearing could be lower for maximum ability towing on the SRW trucks and still be fuel efficient. Now this all goes out the window if you use larger rims/tires than the powertrain engineer designed for.

Remember also Ram has been hammered for fuel efficiency on the 6. 7L engines since they have been introduce.

This should be a good question to ask at the CMEP tour in June; I will try to remember and ask if no one else ask.

OK let the HAMMERING begin!!!

Jim W.

 

[NIsaacs]

Jim, on the surface, I mostly agree on what you are saying. However, I think it is drivin more by what sells and competition than an efficient tow truck. The 4500/5500 are awesome trucks, yet rated way less.



Nick

 

[TCDiesel]

Ok, I just scaled at the Shamrock, cross the scale here 100s of times it right on, Truck 2013 3500 SRW Front axle 5300- Rear 3300 Me and full Tank of Fuel. 8600lbs, its 1200 heavier then My 12,05,03 empty.



Edit: All My trucks are 3500s



Also I top off with My Auxiliary Tank Drove 151 Miles top off form Same tank and Nozzle, Best guess 100 city 51 Hwy HC 15. 2 MPG took 9. 9 Gallons. When the nozzle shut down and I look at the Gallon counter I was shocked, I expected 12 Gallons or so, I can also tell by the sound when its going to stop, it the same always, Pretty Darn good form a truck with 192 Miles & 8600lbs.



I believe you get as good of mileage as the guy paying for it, Maybe to early to tell, But dam its a good start... ... .....